(The title refers to this post.)
Ok, this is a post of (probably pointless) complaint about one of society’s conventions. I do that from time to time. So as I said in an earlier post, I lost my bag within which I carry around my personal day to day stuff. It is small and fits on my shoulder and carries lots of useful stuff that I don’t like to carry in my pockets. My handbag, if you will. I happily carry such a bag, and call it by that name quite often. Sometimes I jokingly say that I’m “secure enough in my sexuality to call it what it is”, and not have to lamely resort to inventing a new name for something that already exists in the world serving that exact function – but carried by women. I’d forgotten just how serious and non-joking this whole business actually is. I did not recall how much trouble I’d previously gone to when I tried to find such a bag that suits my needs (practical and aesthetic). It’s a real pain. Losing it now meant that I had to go through this all over again, and discovering that I’d not really finished the job that previous time. (And the alternative names are so stupid – “manbag”, “murse”, etc… Haven’t they noticed that “handbag” is already gender neutral?)
What is the problem? Simply put, there’s an unbelievable amount of phobia here (and it is here in the USA more than, say Europe) about guys carrying such bags. Utterly ridiculous. I thought about calling it a holdover of some sort of homophobia, but I don’t think that’s it exactly – it is a sort of need for guys to reaffirm themselves as “macho”, and to run scared from anything that might (because of some narrow cultural-norms filter applied here) speak to the contrary.
The issue for me is that I hate carrying lots of items in my pockets. These items ruin the shape of the clothing, make it hang all wrong, and there’s jingling and knocking of things together, and scratching and bumping and… ugh. Besides, there’s too much of it… wallet, phone, camera, sunglasses, notebook, the novel I’m reading… etc. If you’re wearing a good coat or jacket, a lot of these things can go into those pockets (up to a point)… but here in Southern California, you’re wearing such a garment for about fifteen to twenty days of the year – three if you drive everywhere like everybody else – so that’s really a non-starter. Then there’s the overstuffed jeans, or cargo pants option, but, you know… no. Just… No.
So try to find a “hand bag” that is just plain and simple. Neither overtly girly nor overtly manly. It’s really hard, as there is not much variety. The staff in most places look at you like you’re insane when you ask for one. There’ll be a whole store full of handbags of almost every shape and size for women, and they can’t imagine what you’d want a bag for a guy for. I tried just buying a “woman’s” bag, but had all sorts of difficulties finding something there too… lots of funny shapes, or all sorts of trim or strange (to me) colours for lining that just won’t do.
I learned some things on my explorations of this issue (which took way more time in various shopping centers than it should have). Amazingly, things are way better here than they were not so long ago. There is now an acceptable bag that guys can carry, you see – the “Messenger Bag”. Apparently this became acceptable in America largely because there was a manly gravelly-voiced role model sporting one in a TV show. Jack Bauer in the show 24. Our hero fights terrorists with his bare hands and so forth, is the acceptable face of torture on American TV… and carries a messenger bag. So, as a result, such bags are now widely acceptable for guys to carry in America. So assuming I’m not blankly stared out of a store for asking for a hand/shoulder bag for a guy, the answer I get is “You mean a Messenger Bag?”, to which I answer no.
In fact, I went to the web to help me find a bag I might use, and (of course) found sites discussing the issue. On one such, the following exchange is reported:
Speaking of 24, over at Yahoo! Answers a reader named Miss D writes in with a query:
If Jack Bauer is so badass, why does he carry a murse?Twenty would-be wise guys try to explain. Including Dave, who lays it out:
That’s where he carries all his whoopass. Sometimes he has so much of it, it spills […]
You know, I must remember that! It’s maybe better than my humourous “secure enough in my sexuality …” remark. “That’s where I keep my Whoopass…” (And there I was leaving my Whoopass at home all this time, not realizing I could carry it around with me…)
Anyway, the point is that this is not good enough, people. The messenger bag is this huge thing, good for some things but I don’t need such volume for default use. Also, I have several bags of that size already – computer bags, messenger bags, tote bags, etc… (A ton of them with names of conferences written on them and so of course I don’t use them because I really don’t like wearing things with writing on. Yes, I’m a bit weird about some things. You know that already from reading this blog.) I want a small bag that fits a novel, a notebook, wallet, keys, and some small consumer electronics. I don’t need much more. Few shops seem to sell anything that small. It it is that small, it is usually some plastic thing you’re supposed to take with you when traveling on a trip abroad to indicate to everyone that you’re a tourist and this is where your plane tickets, travelers checks, and passport are. It is not intended by the sellers as a routine everyday thing (although I have found a good one of those from Eddie Bauer – Ha! No relation to Jack!! (Just saw the name coincidence there…) – that I sometimes use as a handbag too – that is in fact what I lost those weeks back. I’d settled on it after giving up on the quest to find something a bit more all-occasions).
It actually took me over two separate days of dedicated shopping trips to three major shopping areas to solve the problem (while also shopping to replace my camera and wallet). I was able to replace the basic bag that I lost, but I wanted to go further and solve the problem once and for all of finding a nicer bag that I could use for a wider variety of occasions… aesthetics are important here, as well as practicality. (Just ‘cos I’m a guy does not mean that I don’t care about that too.)
In the end, by chance wandering into some stores almost dead from walking around looking (this happened on both days), I eventually purchased two… (yeah, I know), because experience shows that you never know when I might see them again, and they can serve different functions… They’re rather great actually. One beautifully made of quite splendid leather, and the other more ordinary leather. At one place where I got the more splendid one, Sofia (the rather beautiful sales assistant who graciously put up with my agonizing in the store) pointed out that she’s never had someone from the USA ask for such a bag. It’s always Europeans. This struck me as interesting. Sure enough, most companies that actually make anything like a variety of bags that are suited to guys are not US companies. And in many cases you have to go rather high-end to find good stuff. Although I did not like most of the items they make, among the best made ones I saw were by Louis Vuitton -they were way too brown for me (oh, and over-priced). There were others by various other European companies (French and Italian, primarily) and hardly anything by US companies. [Update: Although, ironically, the bags I settled on are made by US companies.] You can see a lot of what I mean from this (of course) blog that I found.
The US companies that were represented tend to go out of their way to break down the “perceived anti-manly” phobia….labeling the bags stupid names like “Manbag”, and so forth. I found an amusing analysis of one of these companies’ marketing cues on one website. [update: see image right, from Man-n-Bag. Their slogan is “If it’s not a Man-n-Bag, it’s a purse!”] (Can’t find the link to the analysis now.) On the one hand they have the picture of the guy with the bag, but then they compensate by having him in the arms of some tall blonde female who is not into him because of his love of musical theatre (not that there’s anything wrong with that), and even an American flag features in the same picture as though to reassure the potential buyer that if he carries a handbag he’s not effeminate, gay, or (shock horror) French. (Not that there’s anything wrong with any of those.) It’s all very very ridiculous.
Ok… rant over. The short version? It seems very unfair to me that women get a huge range of choices of utilitarian carry bags (entire stores and companies devoted to it) while guys get quizzical looks when they ask for anything like a range of choices on the high street. We’re just about allowed to be clones of Jack Bauer wandering around looking like we’re personally delivering contracts or film reels. That’s it. This is right alongside the complaint that I feel women should make more when they are sold items of clothing with not even one useful pocket at twice the price that the same item (with more, deeper pockets, and using twice the material) is sold to guys for. But that’s another story, and probably better blogged about by another…
So, anyway, I’ve been road-testing my new primary handbag for a couple of weeks now and have been loving it. I replaced all my stuff (notebook, camera, wallet, all my cards, and so forth…) and have it with me again along with the phone, keys, and so forth (which miraculously were not in the lost/stolen bag), and feel ready for almost anything again (except I don’t yet have a replacement for the tiny super-bright flashlight, and other tiny utility items that I probably should not tell you I carry around – No I don’t have a Batman complex…).
-cvj
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Actually, that’s a pretty fantastic website. Some of those bags are pretty good! Thanks. Good for future bag needs, and for others who might be reading.
(I’ve to upload a picture of my bags soon… just need to find the time…)
-cvj
I’m far behind on reading your blog, I know–I’m blaming it on Passover–but I do have a solution for you: Tom Bihn. I carry all the same stuff you do and I want to look sharp (I am a lesbian secure in MY sexuality). Look for the ones called “cafe bag” or “tote.” http://www.tombihn.com/
Glad to see you find a nice handbag to keep all your stuff in.
On a related note, Lifehacker had a few posts in a series (3 I believe) that had plenty of people showing off their handbags (and items they carry with them). Fun to look at (and maybe more inspiration for the future?). It also shows that plenty of American men do carry “handbags” (although there’s also a good amount of messenger bags, backpacks, and even vests included).
http://lifehacker.com/software/screenshot-tour/show-us-your-go-bag-289933.php
Enjoy!
-S
Oh, I never said it was easy… just that you know in advance that in a large market they’re probably out there… several of them.
-cvj
The public demands pictures!
I should add I agree with Candace that it isn’t that easy to find a nice woman’s bag. I dread having to look for a new one. So expensive!
Clifford — I was actually mostly kidding. I’m sorry that wasn’t obvious. Anyway, as I said, I’m glad you found something you like, and I look forward to the pictures! Enjoy your bag.
–IP
Hi,
In the main post I was always clearly (I thought) talking about bags with long straps. You’re talking about something different. (The term “handbag” is the problem, I guess… in all the contexts I’ve encountered, it means much more than the little thing women traditionally tuck under the shoulder with the tiny straps, and has done for a long time. But perhaps I’m wrong, and was so misleading – but several others understood, so I did not think there was any confusion.) And there are plenty of bags without the super-thin straps you talk about in the women’s market. Really. Have a look at any of the sites I pointed to, for example.
But this is getting sort of ridiculous, so I think I’ll stop here.
As I said above…. each to his/her own.
Cheers,
-cvj
I did read what you wrote. Most women’s bags are designed with short straps that go over the shoulder and are held in the armpit. This means you have to have your arm clamped over the bag the whole time to keep the strap from falling off your shoulder. (It’s not the weight that is necessarily the problem — it’s having your arm clamped over the thing, although of course it’s worse if the bag is heavy). This causes muscle tension, which causes pain.
Yes, there are proper shoulder bags with longer straps that go over the shoulder and hang lower, but in my experience the straps are usually much too narrow for the weight of a even a book and notebook etc, and thus still cause pain to the shoulder (although they don’t have the armpitness). The other problem I encounter with these is that they are a bit awkward to cycle with).
Anyway, I’m pleased to hear you won’t be experiencing the armpit problem that plagues so many women. Or the pain. Enjoy the bag. Wish you health to wear it, as my grandmother use to say. 🙂
–IP
IP wrote:
I think you’re talking about something else, and can’t have read what I wrote properly. You seem to think I’m talking about a book bag for school or work here. I’m not. I wrote:
I don’t think this brings up the “pain” and “armpitness” issues of which you speak.
But each to his/her own, all the same…
Cheers,
-cvj
But pain! And armpitness!
But still pain! And still armpitness!
–IP
And then of course there are TOOLBELTS!! I’ve got a suede one–a birthday gift last year–that I like so much I’m tempted to wear it to work (NB, I am not a carpenter). It’d be totally badass (not whoopass) over a miniskirt. If I went in for such things.
Blue collar American males carry bags all the time. Try a Carhartt tool bag. But most of their clothes have enough pockets to carry a fairly decent assortment of things. And they’re the most comfortable thing I’ve ever worn as well as lasting quite a long time.
Hi IP:-
I’ve lots of good flashlights, but you should see the flashlight I had. It was a steel-finish credit card with a little bump on the end. You squeeze the card and there’s a wonderfully bright LED light coming out of the bump. Not good for mounting search parties on the moors but great for that dropped pen under the seat in the theatre and so forth. Lifetime battery supply bonded into the card’s body. Excellent. Sigh….
I understand you feel strongly on the matter, but I think that there are many who would disagree with your general dismissal of all women’s handbags. It is not really a “grass is greener on the other side” issue…. The point is that there’s a huge range to choose from because the market is huge compared to that for men (at least here)… Generally if you buy low quality stuff then it will of course fall apart, but that’s true for lots of things. There are also really good products that will last a very long time. You might pay a bit more, but it is thoroughly worth it in the end when you’re still using it ten or twenty years (or even a lifetime) later.
-cvj
Women’s bags might *look* classy but they’re murder! For starters, a lot of bags have small straps, so they have to be held in the armpit. Carrying notebooks or books under your armpit is a recipe for extreme and alost instant shoulder pain. Plus and uncomfortable armpit. A lot of bags with longer straps (that is, actual shoulder straps) have poor-quality shoulder straps, so the straps dig into the neck and shoulder — also a recipe for pain. And even if they are comfortable to carry — I’ve yet to have a women’s handbag or shoulder bag that I used regularly and that didn’t fall apart at the seams in a sillily short amount of time. Women’s bags are usually just for looking good, not for anything remotely useful.
I long ago gave up looking for useful and comfortable bags in “normal” shops. I usually go for outdoor stores or army surplus for backpacks. I like backpacks. Army surplus usually stock shoulder bags too. They may not be the classy style you’re after, Clifford, but they’ll be functional and comfortable and they won’t fall apart.
I do have a couple of shoulder bags for looking nice (and thus not for being especially useful), but these were not from “normal” shops.
Re flashlights: I have a small flashlight that has 4 LEDs. Quite compact. Runs on 2 AA batteries and has excellent battery life as compared to incandescent bulbs. Recommended.
Cheers,
IP
Dear All:
Thanks for the thoughts!
Did not have any pictures at time of writing, and did not think anyone would really be interested… besides… should a guy give away all his fashion secrets? Don’t want to show up at a conference and find all my colleagues with the same bag now, do I…? 😉
Also, I forgot to mention in the post the irony that the main bag I settled on is actually from an American company! (When I update for typos I’ll put that in…)
Maybe some pics later then…. just hopped off a plane. Time for relaxation.
-cvj
I dunno, Candace… I’d say it was at least an order of magnitude worse for guys, even though there is a lot of bad stuff out there indeed…. — But have you been into Coach? They can sometimes have some good stuff in their women’s handbag ranges. I’ve seen some, and also a number of women friends of mine whose taste I respect swear by their stuff. (Not much for guys, but my wallet is from there. I got it first as a gift many years back and it got stolen in the earlier event that lost the bag. It was such a very well made simple classic piece, that I simply went and bought another one to replace it.)
Cheers,
-cvj
Sorry to hear your stuff got nicked. It’s always devastating.
While it may appear that women have more choice in handbags, the reality is that they are all hideous and unusable rubbish. I’m not into disposable fashion (and neither are you) so that’s what makes it hard to find a good bag, regardless of gender. I’m still looking, although my muji quasi-backpack satchel thing will do for now.
I’m with mollishka and Bilal: pictures, please!
Have you considered prosthetic surgery in the form of a kangaroo type pouch implanted somewhere?
I am still chuckling after reading your blog. I couldn’t agree more with what you have written. When I am walking, there’s so much clincling, tinkling going on with the keys hitting the spare change, the blackberry getting scratched by the pen etc. But dear Clifford, where are the pictures? What store did you go to? Pray tell!
All that and we don’t even get PICTURES of the bags?! I’m devastated!!
My husband got a bag like that at REI – though, yes, it is more for travel purposes than anything else (but that’s what he wanted it for). We both are into cargo pants/shorts, but I can understand how that could be vexing for some.
I really want Scott-e-vest to come out with women’s pants – I hate carrying a purse, but like to have it all with me. And nice cargo pants are hard to find for women. And their clothes are well designed to not show bulges and are well balanced. Their jacket is one of the most awesome things ever. (but yes, not for warm climates)
I’m glad you found your brand new bag. And will concede that yes, women get all the variety in this genre. But as an f who’s a decidedly reluctant handbag user (though I gave up on pockets many years ago), I’ve got to say that most of the “variety” is designed to make the bags themselves as useless as possible–difficult to hold, or too tiny to carry anything, or too huge to tote around, or ridiculously frou-frou, or wierd/impractical colors…the list goes on. I have ONE bag that I carry all the time, and chose because it’s a) neutral and b) designed like a small backpack, so I can get it OUT of my hands occasionally. But if I were at all interested in being a fashionista, I’d need different bags to go with all my shoes, belts, bras…do you know that $4000 is a not-uncommon price for mamma’s brand new bag? And so what was the point of this post? Search me (or my bag).
I’m with you on this Clifford, and it is part of a more general phenomena: did you notice how much more variety you get in women’s products? better quality stuff, better designed, better materials, more thought put into everything, whereas we are typically stuck with a couple of “manly” choices, designated as such by virtue of their being completely ordinary in every way…
Dear Clifford,
I do not know if this would serve your purpose and suit your tastes; but, I have seen one of my friends carrying a similar one in India, which, from your description might be suitable for you too.
Guru
When I lived in France, about 30 years ago, I was interested to see that most men carried handbags. I got one myself and became quite attached to it over about three years. On my return to Australia, I quickly got sick of the constant questions and stupid comments about it, so I put it away and went back to bulging pockets, an overfull wallet, stuff in my hands and a general feeling of dissatisfaction. Good to see somebody who sticks to his guns.
Wow. I’ve always thought that handbags of any sort were anti-utilitarian. I’ve always thought they were invented to keep women from using their hands (just as high heels were invented to keep women from being able to *run*). If it won’t fit in my pockets, I throw it in a backpack. If I have to use a large container, I stick it on my head. It’s interesting that you’ve given this so much thought, as have I, and we’ve reached opposite conclusions. I did purchase a wallet, though–a large, ugly black one–because I kept losing my driver’s license and debit card. I hate the wallet. I keep slipping those two essential cards into my pocket, which is why yesterday I lost my debit card in the grocery store parking lot (fortunately, it was retrieved by a good person and turned into the store). So now I suppose I’ll have to purchase a smaller wallet. If I want to carry The New Yorker with me, I use a canvas briefcase that fits over my shoulder (not leather because I’m a vegetarian). See–we all have to think about this stuff, but you’re the first one I’ve found who’s blogged about it so extensively. It figures.