When Physicists Go Bad?

billy cottrellI’m rather shocked by this story, and feel compelled to draw it to your attention. This week’s LA Weekly’s cover story is by Judith Lewis, and it is a very detailed account of what’s been happening to Billy Cottrell since you probably last heard about him. He was convicted for his role in various arson attacks on SUV dealerships in the Pasadena area, and sent to prison. Just to remind you, Billy Cottrell was a graduate student in theoretical physics working with colleagues of mine just up the road at Caltech, and so it has even more resonance as a story than normal, since even though I never knew him, he -or his type- is so familiar to many of us, right down to the youthful fascination with Euler’s eiÏ€ + 1 = 0. (Apparently he left that written at some of the crime scenes…)

torched hummersI leave a question mark in the title of this post for lots of reasons: Just how “bad” was he in the first place? Had some of the vehicles that were damaged not been from out of state, the crimes would not have been Federal matters, and the full weight of the crimes being labeled acts of terrorism (and all that brings with it in today’s atmosphere) would not have transpired. The judge seems also to have simply added three years to his sentence on a whim. His having Asperger’s syndrome was never allowed to be mentioned in the case at all, and so the jury was never given the opportunity to consider that some particular behavioural characteristics (in the course of the crimes themselves, and in the course of the courtroom defense) might have been exacerbated by it. The list of things goes on.

But since his sentencing, things have got even worse. It’s just dreadful. The terrorist label has stuck with him in prison and combines with the labels of “genius”, and “scientist” have simply made him an object of mistrust, fear, and astonishing mistreatment by both prison staff and inmates, throughout his time so far.

It is simply heartbreaking to hear of someone being denied their physics (and other) books and writing materials, being denied access to the kind of work where their skills might best be put to use (due to irrational fears that somehow he might use the tools or other equipment to do some genius scientist thing or other which could present a security risk), and even being denied to to the one thing he might do which would be of huge value to the prison and its population – to teach the inmates mathematics literacy…

I’ll leave you to read the rest of the article, and to learn about the efforts from those outside (family and scientist friends and well-wishers alike) to help, to get more information about his treatment, and to get it stopped. Here’s another reason why I have the question mark in the title. All of the maltreatment he has been subjected to (and I’ve really not described much of it at all… read the article), from being denied books and paper to being regularly put into “the Hole” for solitary confinement in very poor conditions, is likely to turn what may just have been a confused kid into a hardened and bitter person with an axe to grind. If he was not “bad” before, he could well be driven that way by the end of all of this. (The article points out examples of the evolution of the tone of his letters to support this, and it is a dreadful state of affairs indeed.) The article quotes from one of the letters signed by several prominent scientists on this matter:

“Nobody disputes the fact that in jail Billy has to be taught a lesson he obviously has yet to learn. . . But from everything we hear, what is going on at Lompoc is by no means the teaching of a lesson. If Billy’s treatment does not change, then by the time he will have served his full sentence, Billy will have ended up a human wreck unsuited for any constructive participation in American society. His chances of living up to his bright promise by making a significant contribution to science seem to be fast fading already.”

It’s really shocking to see what seems to be (if all is as is reported) such a striking example of how misguided hysteria over the terrorism label (combined with the familiar public fear of the scientist which seems to be playing a role too) can so easily cause so much pain and misery to one person. Yes, he was involved in some highly misguided criminal activity, but the system is so badly broken that it does not seem to have, even by accident, taken any of the sensible or positive courses of action in the story at all. There’s just nothing like rehabilitation going on, just basically cruel and unusual punishment.

This is of course one of very many such extraordinary cases of mistreatment of an individual in the hands of the justice system, but this one stands out to me today, perhaps because it is a striking example of just how easy it is to get to that point – you just need one or two simple labels to be attached to you that earmark you as “other” in the eyes of the system (both prison administrators and inmates) – an object of misunderstanding, fear, or similar (often it is race, religion, etc., this time it seems to be genius/scientist terrorist)… and then it takes so long to come back from that hell, if ever.

-cvj

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43 Responses to When Physicists Go Bad?

  1. Carl Brannen says:

    Clifford,

    I am so glad that you have completed the “day in the life of” posts. They were exhausting just to read. I don’t know where you find time to sleep. Now that I’m retired, I stay up as late as I want (like Schwinger) and fall asleep with a notebook or text book next to my pillow.

    I’ve been looking again at Bohmian mechanics. Bohm sort of goes the opposite direction of string theory. He supported a classical interpretation of quantum theory rather than a quantum interpretation of (classical) gravity.

    He wrote [tex]\psi = \sqrt{\rho} \exp(i S)[/tex] to convert [tex]\psi[/tex] to two real wave functions. Then [tex]S[/tex] is the potential for a vector field, the field that defines the classical particle trajectories of Bohmian mechanics. The calculations of Bohmian mechanics are identical to Schroedinger’s equation, but the interpretation is different.

    What I’m interested in is understanding how one implements a multiparticle bound state in this sort of theory, in the context of the primitive idempotent structure of a Clifford algebra. I’m slowly making progress on this.

    Anyway, I’ve stuck this off in an obscure corner of your blog so you can delete it after you read it.

  2. Warrior Two says:

    Not that this is relevant, but how much of a genius could he be if he didn’t realize he’d be so easily caught sending emails under an assumed name from the Caltech computer lab?

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  5. joe says:

    A commenters point made about prison injustice (evident in Cottrell’s letter to LA Weekly) are true.

    The following was publicly stated after a notorious S. Cal incident (videotape shown nationally), where an unconscious black teen (who had a learning disability) was thrown headfirst on the hood of a police car:

    don87654 07-16-2002, 3:27 PM

    Southern California cops are just plain crooked, period! I was once a
    State of California Correctional Peace Officer at the California
    Institute for Women at Frontera. We were taught in the Academy at Galt
    how to formulate evidence to make ourselves look good and victims to
    look bad. I refused to cater to this treatment and was fired by an
    abusive Lieutenant that was in charge of Internal Affairs at the time.
    Later because of my outspoken stances on this, charges were levied
    against me involving vehicle tampering and simple assault and I was
    convicted of this by what appeared to be paid police witnesses. My
    attorney at the time, one of the best criminal lawyers in southern
    California, told me to pack my bags and leave town, which I did. It took
    him 8 long years to get my conviction erased from court records and to
    get the warrant for my arrest dropped by the court so I was no longer
    “wanted”. It does not matter where they are at….these California cops
    that completed the Academy in Los Angeles, or for the State, are just plain crooked–they are taught to be that way

    Basically, Cottrell is getting “ganged” by the authorities masquerading as the “Legal System”. It’s ILLEGAL, their selective mistreatment. Who’s the bad guy?

    This story reminds me of a guy who was getting harassed by 7 odd CHP officers, getting followed & getting pulled over repeatedly. The cops decided to dislike they guy, & “ganged” him. Illegal harassment. Just like notorious Rodney King incident.

    Cottrell’s letter to LA Weekly:
    “..My problems are almost entirely with the administration. The politics here, as with the government in general, are roughtly the same. Those with the least scruples rise the highest. Any time you manufacture and then ‘solve’ a security threat, you receive a promotion. . . .”

    This is reminiscent of Feynman’s letter to Wolfram, warning him of administrative-types:

    “They will drive you WILD, and you will drive them WILD”

  6. Ed Bishop says:

    The Death of American Genius

    The other day I mentioned to some friends that we shouldn’t be too surprised if a genius might appear some day that proves all the “normal” scientists wrong about the nature of Space-Time. I was wrong. We should be very surprised, indeed, if our brave new country produces even ONE more genius.
    We just need to keep in mind what modern American society does to ALL of its odd-balls, especially it’s geniuses. If they somehow escape the ministrations of the Psychiatric Priesthood Cult (approx. 50% of U.S. schoolboys are now force-drugged with Ridilin), they’ll likely end up in prison.

    Can anyone be found who was “terrorized” by his acts.

    The Fourth Riech has arrived. It will be a done-deal with the October Surprise of 2008.

    Good Night, America.

  7. You can start reading here about abuse in the prisonz. Don’t miss the HRW stuff on prison rape. Here’s a “Legal Affairs” article on prison rape. Here is a Salon article on abuse of Muslim prisoners. There are BBC articles on the subject here, here, and here. (Those last two are about UK prisons, but the first is about US prisons).

    Also Stop Prison Rape has some info. Here is what Amnesty has to say on the issue. And here is some info from Democracy Now.

    You could probably find some more articles with a quick google.

    Are you with them in their cells?

    No. Are you?

    I’m afraid you have been in one way or another brainwashed by the media.

    How is reading the mainstream newspapers being “brainwashed ? Can you substantiate this? This isn’t a “new” issue — there has actually been quite a lot of mainstream media coverage of this issues, especially in the British media.

    There was also an influential psychological study on institutionalised violence in the prison context. I can’t remember the researcher’s name, but I can try to track it down if you’re interested.

    –IP

  8. Eliot says:

    IrrationalPoint: What’s your basis that “Cottrell and other ordinary guys are being mistreated and absused by the ‘justice’ system”? Are you with them in their cells? I’m afraid you have been in one way or another brainwashed by the media.

  9. Eliot: nobody is suggesting that justice shouldn’t be blind. What I have said is that this is not justice. Cottrell and other ordinary guys are being mistreated and abused by the “justice” system. Abuse and inhumane treatment is unjust, whoever it happens to.

    –IP

  10. Clifford says:

    But he is just an ordinary guy.

    -cvj

  11. Eliot says:

    What if he was just an ordinary guy. Would you go this far to sympathize with him? Isn’t justice supposed to be blind?

  12. “Thank you. I think I explained reasonably clearly what makes this case rather different and interesting, however. And you are not right that terrorism is irrelevant. Did you read the piece I pointed to at all, or not?

    And even if it was not new or unique (and I suggested nothing of the sort), is that reason to ignore it entirely?”

    I didn’t say it wasn’t interesting and I *certainly* don’t think it should be ignored. Rather, I think the fact that inhumane treatment of prisoners happens all the time makes the story more sad and more important, not less.

    What I meant about the terrorist label was just that if the label had been “serious” he would almost certainly be in even worse conditions than he is now given the current administration and expanded powers for indefinite detention and torture. The fact that he’s in a federal prison means he’s being processed as an ordinary criminal, rather than a “real” terrorist.

    That said, it doesn’t surprise me that prison system officials are afraid of intelligent prisoners who don’t see their sentence as punishment, nor does it surprise me that he’s being treated worse because of it. (Yes, I read the article.) Large-scale mistreatment of intellectuals has occured in the past precisely because people who work in the system are are afraid of intellegence. “Terrorist” is a convenient excuse for victimising such people, but that charge is not being taken as seriously as it could be by the legal system in this case (which is lucky for Cottrell).

    “Sorry, but just because someone is a “genius” or “autistic” or whatever does not make it okay for him to break the laws and have no respect for other people’s property”

    The point about autism is that some autistic people don’t understand some social rules. No one is claiming that is the case here, but I agree that medical evidence (in either direction) should have been allowed in court.

    “To others, take it as a good life lesson not to wind up in jail.”

    Or as a good life lesson that non-prisoners like us need to defend prisoners’ human rights. No one, whatever they have or have not done, should be subjected to the kind of inhumane treatment that prisons are full of.

    Good post, Cliff.

    –IP

  13. Plato says:

    Taking up causes in this way has it’s consequences.

    At the same time enforced incarceration has opportunities with it that may have some reflection time. Hopefully the environment can be made conducive regardless of what is limited to him. Who can steal your thoughts? Who can steal what you practise to remember. Rehearse it, day in and day out.

    Some of the new leaders have faced incarceration and within that time became new men. Some leaders who were changed to the way we see things now.

    Anwar Sadat. His biography is a interesting read. Mandela?

    Not to say he might ever be like them, but given this time, what may be a more productive way to send the message?

  14. Haelfix says:

    The kid has my sympathy. I don’t doubt that he should be there, but here’s to hoping his situation improves so he can do his time with the least amount of extra baggage possible.

    To others, take it as a good life lesson not to wind up in jail.

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  16. anon says:

    I think one of the more depressing realizations I had when reading about this case originally was that crimes against property often carry harsher sentences than crimes against people. Firebombing an SUV can bring a more prolonged sentence than, say, robbery, assault, or rape. It’s horrifying. There’s a qualitative difference between damaging property (especially corporate property — it’s not as if any individual’s finances were destroyed by this crime; no lives were ruined, even if it did set some people back in some ways) and hurting people, and it’s not at all clear that our justice system sees the latter as the greater crime.

  17. Anti-Andy says:

    Haven’t you watched Silence of the Lambs? Evil genius is the most dangerous crminal.

  18. Clifford says:

    “Coddling an inmate just because he’s a physicist is just as bad as treating him worse for that same reason. ”

    Hi. I agree, but where did anyone say that he should be coddled because he is a physicist? You seem to be arguing against a simplistic point of view that was never expressed.

    Cheers,

    -cvj

  19. Rae Ann says:

    “I suspect that the reason he’s being punished more severely than some is more likely to be due to his lack of contrition than his connection with ecoterrorism, his being intelligent (LOL), or any Asperger’s syndrome…”

    I think Carl is absolutely correct in his statements. From an “outsider’s” perspective I kind of view the possibly excessive sympathy for Cottrell as indefensible and maybe even laughable. Sorry, but just because someone is a “genius” or “autistic” or whatever does not make it okay for him to break the laws and have no respect for other people’s property and to refuse to participate in his punishment/rehabilitation. Also, prisons have their own kind of social environment that is not very accepting of “high falutin” academians, especially those with huge egos. Of course, I’m not justifying any inhuman treatment, but let’s not forget that prison is primarily for *punishment* and protecting society from dangerous individuals. Coddling an inmate just because he’s a physicist is just as bad as treating him worse for that same reason. I’m just saying.

  20. Clifford says:

    Perhaps. I just don’t see how you and IP conclude that from the information available. Perhaps you have more information than I. Your interpretations may well be correct. I just don’t agree.

    Best,

    -cvj

  21. Carl Brannen says:

    Clifford, after considering this overnight, I suspect that the reason he’s being punished more severely than some is more likely to be due to his lack of contrition than his connection with ecoterrorism, his being intelligent (LOL), or any Asperger’s syndrome.

    The idea of US federal prison is to punish and rehabilitate. What Cottrell is doing is short circuiting the rehabilitation process by refusing to acknowledge that what he did was wrong. What’s even worse, he doesn’t kowtow to authorities. There is no expectation that he will obey the law when released. Under that circumstance, not only will they punish you more, but they also will turn you down for probation.

    In prison, you are not necessarily allowed to pursue your hobbies. If that includes physics, too bad. Nice jobs are for prisoners who work within the system. Part of that is by recognizing the error of their ways.

    And in general, being a white collar criminal does not give you a “pass” from having to deal with the problems that blue collar criminals face when in jail. I doubt that he’s being locked up with snitches in order to make him beat them up. Instead, they lock him up with a snitch so that he isn’t beat up immediately by his roomie.

    Given Cal. Tech’s reputation for housing geniuses, reading the FBI report was highly amusing. Why anyone would expect the next advance in particles to come out of people who spend their time putting bumper stickers on other peoples cars is beyond me. At least one guy had enough smarts to ask if it was a crime. Maybe they should have a mandatory class for freshmen, so they don’t have to learn terms like “unindicted co-conspirator” from reading history.

  22. Anti-Andy says:

    Is Billy Cottrell like a Unabomber wannabe?

  23. Clifford says:

    IP:- Thank you. I think I explained reasonably clearly what makes this case rather different and interesting, however. And you are not right that terrorism is irrelevant. Did you read the piece I pointed to at all, or not?

    And even if it was not new or unique (and I suggested nothing of the sort), is that reason to ignore it entirely?

    Fizzix and others:- Thanks. You may well be right about about his character, the trial, and circumstances surrounding that, but this matter is entirely about his treatment within the prison system, after the sentencing, which is inexcusable.

    Thanks all,

    -cvj

  24. This is a very sad story, but I don’t think it really has anything to do with the “terrorist” label (or he would be spending his jail sentence in Guantanamo), nor is his treatment different from that of anyone else in the legal system.

    The prison system is completely screwed up — rehab is essentially non-existent, and prisoners live in an environment that is hugely more violent and abusive than the outside world, and full of drugs, rape, fights, and utter neglect. When you enter the legal system, human rights get left behind.

    In the treatment of prisoners cannot be really degrading punishment due to the human rights act which is backed up by the European Court of Human Rights.

    In theory. But in practice, the threatment of prisoners is degrading all the time, and their rights are violated all the time. The UK is currently facing huge overcrowding problems in the prison system, and continuous complaints of mistreatment of prisoners.

    Clifford, this story is indeed sad and speaks volumes about the state of the US legal system, but it’s nothing new or unique.

    –IP

  25. andy says:

    Yvette said:
    “Interestingly, burning an SUV emits several times more greenhouse gasses”
    This is inaccurate.

  26. Kristin says:

    Fizzix, thank you for saying what needed to be said. It sounds like though Cottrell is being treated inhumanely, and what’s news is that this is because the prisoner is someone from an otherwise privileged population for a change–educated, white, well-connected enough to have scientists writing in support. So Cottrell has means of recourse that others whom the mainstream population can’t relate to as well (poor, retarded, mentally ill) don’t have, which is why we’re reading about his story.

    As for the loss to physics, well, I can’t help but compare this story to the case of Sherry Towers, a postdoc in particle physics at SUNY Stonybrook and Fermilab, who basically was driven out of her career because she chose to have a baby. And she had even made a concrete contribution to the field, having discovered a new particle, unlike Cottrell, who was still on the learning curve. But where is the signed letter from a bunch of physicists in support of Sherry Towers and protesting the loss of a major talent who could have contributed much more to the field of particle physics? Instead, the people in the field circled the wagons around her former boss.

  27. Nigel says:

    Sorry, my first para should end:

    … and [police are too busy with what is regarded as more serious matters, like] fining rich drug dealers.

  28. Nigel says:

    “The basic problem with lightly punishing high dollar crime like this, especially in a political context, is that you invite more of it.” – Carl.

    I agree with this. In the UK, vandalism is out of control and fining rich drug dealers.

    Sending them to prison costs a lot of money in guarding them, feeding them, accommodation, laundry, etc. The UK government has been shutting down prisons and sending out requests to judges to sentence more people to community service orders, like cleaning streets or helping community projects.

    In the treatment of prisoners cannot be really degrading punishment due to the human rights act which is backed up by the European Court of Human Rights.

    This provides an ultimate court of appeal over standards for prisoner care. At the moment here is a surge in teenagers shooting each other with guns in London, which shows how badly things are deteriorating as a result of soft law enforcement.

    I just think the police should prevent crime by being out on the streets, especially on friday and saturday evenings.

  29. Carl Brannen says:

    The link fizzix gave has to be read to be believed. It has a list of Caltech greenies who responded to Cottrell’s email asking for money for bumperstickers. This email stated :

    “While innocent life will never be harmed in any action we undertake, where it is necessary, we will no longer hesitate to pick up the gun to implement justice, and provide needed protection for our planet that decades of legal battles, pleading, protest and economic sabotage have failed so drastically to achieve.”

    Uh, yeah, that’s a great cause for contribution. But I wonder what “innocent’ means in the above context. I would guess that “innocent” means “in the ELF”.

  30. Carl Brannen says:

    There are certain things that are strongly suppressed in our society, and one of these is the wanton destruction of large amounts of expensive property. With a cost of $3 million, no, the SUVs cannot be replaced, at least they cannot be replaced by the guys who did it.

    But we can do this! The physics community can pay back the $3 million! There are about 16,000 physicists in the US so we only need $200 from each. (About 6% are Republicans and won’t contribute.) And then, to guarantee that it won’t happen again, all we have to do is to find enough of us who are willing to put their houses up against a bond! (ELF has only caused something like $200 million in property damage. And if you lose your house, it’ll be better for the environment if you live out of your office.)

    The basic problem with lightly punishing high dollar crime like this, especially in a political context, is that you invite more of it. The destruction of property for political purposes is eventually going to be accompanied by violence, one way or another. It is very easy for revolutionaries (i.e. people who can’t get what they want at the ballot box) to make life unpleasant for rich people. As long as you’re not wealthy, this might not bother you, but societies which do not protect their wealthy citizens rarely protect anyone else. The revolutionary version of equality is not very pleasant.

    The comparisons of US and UK as far as actions against property crimes by politically motivated individuals needs to be reexamined in the historical context of what Britain did during its fight with the IRA. I have no doubt that if an organization burnt $200 million worth of property in Britain the authorities would hammer any it caught. Perhaps the reader has forgotten that the Brits will shoot you if they even suspect you might be a terrorist. The truth is that the British branch of ELF hasn’t done anything very expensive, but they still put people in prison for this.

  31. Yvette says:

    “If someone burned SUVs in London, he/she would probably be given a government prize for promoting eco-friendliness.”

    Interestingly, burning an SUV emits several times more greenhouse gasses than the SUV ever would if it were merely purchased by someone. Better to throw them in the river or something.

    Seriously though, what a sad story. It shows how people have completely forgotten how the punishment is supposed to fit the crime.

  32. fizzix says:

    I was an undergraduate in classes that Billy TAed. If he has Asperger’s syndrome, then I’d say so do up to a full quarter of the undergraduate student body at Caltech. Heck, look at the faculty themselves. General consensus among those who were familiar with Billy at the time was that he’s a very bright guy, somewhat socially clueless, and more than a touch arrogant and sometimes nasty.

    I don’t think the attempt by his attorneys to use his suggested Asperger’s syndrome as a defense — socially clueless but innocent student is misled by devious compatriots into vandalizing and firebombing a couple hundred SUVs — would have worked well on his behalf after the e-mails he sent to the Los Angeles Times, which appear to boast about his role in the crime. You can read the full FBI affidavit here.

    http://www.animalrights.net/archives/year/2004/000401.html

    And from a DOJ press release

    Cottrell has claimed that he suffered from a mild form of autism called Asperger’s Syndrome. During today’s sentencing hearing, prosecutors played a tape recording of a jail house conversation Cottrell had with his mother, in which he says “the whole field of psychology is a myth” and that he could not possess books on Asperger’s Syndrome because that would suggest that he was “faking it, whereas my attorney seems to think I am doing a pretty good job without that.”

    It is an insult to people with Asperger’s syndrome to suggest that the condition makes them inherently incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong or at least between legal and illegal in a case as egregious as this one, especially after reading the e-mails Billy wrote. Anyone pushing Asperger’s syndrome as an excuse should read some of the opinions of other high-functioning autistics on this case, a flurry of which were published on blogs in the weeks and months after the news became public. Most of them are extremely dismayed that the defense would have tried to use the syndrome to clear Billy’s name. And a number of them are also disappointed that Asperger’s syndrome should be an excuse for someone to treat other people with what at times was active maliciousness.

    Having made that clear, I also feel that his mistreatment in prison is highly inappropriate, immoral, and counterproductive.

    We gain nothing by denying him access to his work and we stand to lose by his lack of productivity. We will actively damage him by the neglect and ill treatment he’s receiving.

    But I wonder how many of us care as much about the mistreatment of other prisoners, a significant percentage of whom have below-average IQs (or suffer from mental illnesses). They would never have published any papers, nor perhaps even have held down jobs more prestigious than sweeping Billy’s office. I guess it’s a little too easy on our consciences to throw human beings into the dustbin. I doubt Stephen Hawking would have ever written a letter requesting better treatment for a “lesser” person in prison.

  33. Elliot says:

    This is a tremendously sad story. I would hope people would focus on the devastating effect on this young man’s life rather than the damage to property. Property can be replaced. Hopefully he will survive this episode and become a valued contributor to society. There are times I wish we were a more compassionate and enlightened society. This is one of those times.

    Elliot

  34. andy says:

    It’s always easy to pick out the right wing wing nuts (for lack of a better phrase) like Holmes.

  35. Carl Brannen says:

    I guess the judge, the jury, the police, and the prosecutor didn’t believe his story that he wasn’t involved in the fire bombing. And he is a political prisoner, but what do you want the state to do to people who commit crimes for political reasons? We’re just lucky that there aren’t a lot more of them.

    Maybe they got the wrong guy. I doubt it. What’s clear from his writing is that he hasn’t learned much in jail, except possibly to keep a lower profile when he gets out. And find something other than eiÏ€ + 1 = 0 to write on other people’s property.

  36. Holmes says:

    “I’ve had my car vandalised, and the police wouldn’t even attend.”

    Wow, that’s really way cool. Great to see that the UK is still upholding the right to commit vandalism.

    “If someone burned SUVs in London, he/she would probably be given a government prize for promoting eco-friendliness.”

    True. You have idiots in your government as well as on the streets.

    “Thankfully the UK is more sensible in administering justice than the USA, which is always heavy handed.”

    I’m familiar with the way people in the UK feel superior to damned foreigners, but it is utterly ludicrous that things have come to this pass: you are actually proud of the urban and social decay that is so apparent over there, and regard the collapse of simple security as a mark of civilization. May I remind you that the UK also has “animal liberation” lunatics who have the “right” to firebomb scientific research institutes and to intimidate scientific researchers. Lucky thing that anti-rational forces have no influence in the UK, eh?

    Bottom line: bad things happen to people who go around destroying property. Who would have thought it?

  37. andy says:

    After reading the article I would probably re-word my earlier response. It all does seem excessive in how they are treating him.

  38. efp says:

    The fact that the USA has the largest incarcerated population in the world, by numbers and per capita, should be a national embarrassment, touted every night on every news network until something is done about it (other than building more prisons). Most of them are non-violent offenders. No one even pretends that prisons “reform” anymore. They mostly turn petty thieves and pot smokers into hardened, violent criminals.

    I’m eagerly awaiting Eric Schlosser’s next book on the U.S. prison system. I think he’s the best investigative journalist working right now. Fast Food Nation actually seemed to have some impact. Who knows, maybe it will get some attention.

  39. Nigel says:

    Sorry but I can’t understand the USA or at least Californian laws which impose massive jail sentences and make the prisoners work, because they vandalised some trucks.

    Perhaps my legal knowledge isn’t good, but here in the UK you would have to kill people to get such prison sentences.

    Vandalism, unless it deliberately risked people’s lives (i.e., setting fire to SUVs containing people), gets community service or suspended jail terms here in the UK. Prison terms are reserved for physical violence, carrying firearms, drug dealers, and such like. Vandalism or arson are just not topics of interest to the police. I’ve had my car vandalised, and the police wouldn’t even attend.

    If someone burned SUVs in London, he/she would probably be given a government prize for promoting eco-friendliness. Thankfully the UK is more sensible in administering justice than the USA, which is always heavy handed.

  40. Dato says:

    Excuse me for my jaded attitude.. but this is nothing new. Back in the 90’s it was computer “hackers” and “phreakers” (i.e. anyone able to find the ‘on’ switch on a computer) who were the ones getting traditionally and thoroughly raped by justice.Today it’s “terrorists”. We also have “pedophiles”. Worst would be terrorist pedophile scientists that control big computers and are blacks that have visited the PR of China. It’s just inherent to a society that is totally governed by irrational fears.

    And of course, burning SUVs dealerships? It’s just the insurance that pays, so it’s rather pointless.

  41. andy says:

    I think that the motivation for the punishment lies in the fact that the acts of destroying the cars could have caused other people to have been hurt while putting out the fire. The kid had no right whatsoever to destroy the property and endanger the lives of firefighters.

  42. Bee says:

    This is really a sad story. It makes me wonder if ‘justice’ means anything at all. There’s always the issue what the main purpose is of putting someone in jail (punishment, safety of the outside world, revenge, teaching a lesson), but at least everybody should be treated equally.

  43. spyder says:

    Of course one can also intentionally leak the name and operational connections of a covert, high-ranking, CIA officer, find a willing scapegoat, and then flaunt the illegality and unconstitutional action all over the planet, with not one shred of consequence. There is no accountability for the malice and injustice we are experiencing in the US; make that the planet. One gets to serve several years in Federal prison for participating with a group of others in burning some cars (interesting that that used to be malicious vandalism in the days of my youth); while another commits a glaring act of vile and hideous treason on the orders of his superiors, and will probably not see the inside of a cell. Rather he will be pardoned while waiting in his wealthy upscale splendor for his appeal processes to unfold (given mandatory sentencing guidelines this guy should serve 35 years at least).