Comments on: Nude

By: Incomplete Subtractions at Asymptotia

Incomplete Subtractions at Asymptotia — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:59:43 +0000

[...] a “drop in and draw” session. (I’ve spoken about the value of such practice here before.) Although I’ve been drawing a bit here and there on the bus and subway to keep practicing, [...]

By: Subtraction at Asymptotia

Subtraction at Asymptotia — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 23:49:25 +0000

[...] For comparison with my usual technique when it is working well, look at the drawing from a post in January. [...]

By: Figure at Asymptotia

Figure at Asymptotia — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 01:07:25 +0000

[...] the time and decided to get up and hunt for her alarm clock.). [Update: See earlier posts, e.g., here, for more discussion of such figure [...]

By: Clifford

Clifford — Thu, 03 Feb 2011 00:15:31 +0000

I’ve responded as fully as I know how. You keep banging on about special factors and uppers hands, and I keep banging on about hard work.

You have focused here and elsewhere on prizes and awards and evidently think that is a motivation, and I don’t think that I am sidestepping matters (as you say) by taking the time to tell you that such things are not the reason most people do what they do. Those are certainly not the motivation for doing the hard work people put into their activities… And thank goodness for that! Nobody I know (in research, teaching, administration, or writing, composing, designing, etc, or jobs in service, etc) thinks prizes and so forth are even remotely relevant to why they get out of bed every morning and do what they do.

I am done with the prizes and natural talent discussion now. Thanks for your questions and thoughts, but let’s leave the thread for other things now.

Best,

-cvj

By: kim

kim — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 21:11:54 +0000

Prizes and awards creates competition and an incentive to succeed which is conducive to increasing scientific knowledge no?

But that’s a separate issue from my original question. I was hoping you would respond to that but it seems you are in some sense sidestepping it.

By: Clifford

Clifford — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 20:44:44 +0000

If you’re in a field to win prizes, medals and awards, then I suggest you re-examine what it is you are doing, and what for.

Best,

-cvj

By: kim

kim — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 18:25:52 +0000

I agree that hard work gets worthwhile things done, but some people can understand things quicker than others. They also have significantly more good ideas which can lead to breakthroughs and then prizes and medals being awarded to those individuals. Most professors have to work hard yet only a small minority get fields medals or nobel prizes or have breakthroughs.

Do you accept there is some hidden factor which gives these people the upper hand? If not what explanation can be given for their success?

By: Clifford

Clifford — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 15:55:19 +0000

I have no general thoughts on “people who are naturally talented”. Frankly, I don’t really know what it means. I think that the concept of natural talent is oversubscribed to, and often used as a get-out clause for not trying at something. The actual admixture of natural talent with hard work and so forth is hugely variable (and mostly, hard work is the most important component in my opinion), from person to person that the whole natural talent thing is largely irrelevant in getting worthwhile things done. Even in the exceptional cases, hard work is a huge compoenent. The Ed Wittens, Gary Kasparovs, and Michael Jordans of this world put in a huge amount of work to achieve what they did/do. If they hadn’t, they’d have got pretty much nowhere, just like anyone else who’d not done the work.

So the person one step ahead can just as easily be in that position due to hard work as due to “natural talent”, whatever that is.

I think the most important thing is simply finding your way into a subject/area/skill. Once you find that way in (and how that happens is very person dependent) then your enthusiasm and dedication does the rest. That’s probably all natural talent is… whether you found your way early on. It does not mean the others cannot find their way too, through working at it.

-cvj

By: kim

kim — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 13:04:24 +0000

But there are a handful of those with “natural talent”. Edward Witten for example. So even though you don’t buy the “natural talent” business, what are you thoughts on those that are naturally talented?
Is your view that hard work and practice can go a long way yet those who do have that natural talent will always be one step ahead?

By: Ele Munjeli

Ele Munjeli — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 06:42:42 +0000

I once watched a friend of mine who was a beginner as an artist draw a tree: she actually drew all the branches first, then covered them with leaves. I thought it was absurd, but an excellent example of ‘drawing what you know’. Speed is crucial to good rendering, eventually you can trust your eye to portray a figure that’s mechanically correct, even in an unexpected pose.

Nice essay on the culture of figure drawing. It’s a rare opportunity to enjoy a human body objectively, without exploitation, or intimacy.

By: Clifford

Clifford — Tue, 01 Feb 2011 21:13:31 +0000

Well, I agree with some of things he said, upon which I reported in the post. There’s more to it than those, but I think they’re part of the starting point for understanding the differences.

Best,

-cvj

By: kim

kim — Tue, 01 Feb 2011 21:06:57 +0000

why do you think the naked form is hidden away and frowned on? How does this relate to pornography?

By: Tweets that mention Nude at Asymptotia -- Topsy.com

Tweets that mention Nude at Asymptotia -- Topsy.com — Sat, 29 Jan 2011 18:16:14 +0000

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Bora Zivkovic, Clifford Johnson. Clifford Johnson said: New Blog Post! Nude http://asymptotia.com/2011/01/28/nude/ [...]