This derives from a logical excluded middle under the Field Axioms and relates to scalars whose logical status are distinct. Some scalars exist as theorems of the Field Axioms, others merely satisfy them. Model Theory proves the undecidability. It then propagates fully throughout a theoremology indicative of causelogy in Nature that explains the “causal anomalies” of Quantum Physics. Some details are in my blog.

You are cleverly sidestepping the question. Let me rephrase it. Do you believe that the laws of quantum mechanics operated in the early universe prior to the existence of any intelligent information processing phenomenon that could be classified as an observer?

e.

Can you address the issue of which came first Quantum Mechanics or observers?

e.

Looks like I’ve got some reading/digesting to do.

e.

Using Quantum interrogation it seemed relevant when held in context of Quanglement?

Best,

a photon hits where its information channel tells us it hits. That is the phenomonon. No observer necessary or required. the collapse of the wave through an observation is just reading the data stream at a point in time.

I admit it is unorthodox. But what about QM is not?

Call me crazy but I believe that QM predates observers. How can you reconcile that with the Copenhagen interpretation.

e.

Elliot, in quantum spin microscopy it is natural to elevate this principle from an analogy to a mathematical symmetry—”you observe the sample; the sample observes you”—the resulting quantitative design implications for von Neumann’s dream of comprehensive biomicroscopy are highly encouraging:

“http://www.pnas.org/content/106/8/2477.extract”

Elliot says: “Why I prefer this viewpoint is that it does not introduce the observer as having a special role which always troubled me about other interpretation of QM.”

This principle too can be elevated from an analogy to a mathematical symmetry; with reference to Nielsen and Chuang, the necessary identity is Theorem 8.2, named by them “unitary freedom in the operator-sum representation”.

In pullback form this informatically symmetric point-of-view yields a description of measurement (and noise) as Ito-Lindblad stochastic processes on Kähler state-spaces.

“http://faculty.washington.edu/sidles/QSEPACK/Kavli/QSE_summary.pdf”

This is a very natural extension of the symplectic framework of classical dynamics that was pioneered by (e.g.) Kolomogorov and Arnol’d; these symplectic ideas nowadays provide the mathematical foundations of radically new conformational biology tools (e.g., Rosetta, Anton).

There are many good ways to appreciate quantum mechanics; in quantum systems engineering we find that the “pullback” point-of-view is pedagogically compact, yields efficient recipes for computation and—most important of all!—-links naturally to broad classes of wonderful “yellow book” mathematics.

Why I prefer this viewpoint is that it does not introduce the observer as having a special role which always troubled me about other interpretation of QM.

I may very well be wrong. But I’ve been wrong before and when it comes to interpretations of QM, I don’t think anyone has effectively cornered this market.

e.

The less I say about quantum mechanics, the better.

Ah, no. The Copenhagen interpretation wouldn’t talk about there being a particle, certainly not about there being a particle having any properties, except at the point of measurement. Physicists who claim to adhere to the Copenhagen interpretation might say so (almost everyone until 20 years ago), but I would say that linear superposition is a mathematical operation on quantum states, not a property of particles or particle properties.

Talk of collapse is almost ubiquitous, but the Copenhagen interpretation could be taken to include instrumental interpretations that do not need to invoke collapse as well as von Neumann-type interpretations that feel the need to do so.

In our quantum spin imaging experiments the number of possible experimental data records is (say) 2^(10^16) … this being the number of possible ways that photons can flow through the interferometer. This is such a large number of data records that (per the Kolomogorov-Chaitin definition of randomness), the set of non-random experimental data records necessarily has measure zero.

In short, any theoretical framework that allows for a large number of experimental outcomes—which is to say, any realistic theory—predicts randomness … and quantum theories are not special in this regard.

As for the uncertainty principle, that is explained also using wholly classical language. Measurement processes (and equivalently, noise processes) concentration quantum trajectories onto low dimension manifolds. Viewed as a dynamical pullback onto a Kählerian state-space, this concentration preserves the Lie invariance of symplectic structure (which is why thermodynamics works for both classical and quantum systems), but not the Lie invariance of the metric structure.

The if we associate quantum operators with Berezin symbol functions, and associate each Berezin symbol with a Lie generator, then the Lie commutators on the reduced reduced-dimension state-space enforce all of the standard quantum limits and uncertainty principles.

This approach treats all processes—classical and quantum—as dynamical flows.

The bottom line: we teach quantum systems engineering students that real-world quantum systems have the same symplectic and metric dynamics as classical systems … and therefore, precisely the same spukhafte Fernwirkung.

Whether this is true philosophically, is beyond my competence. But this framework works pretty well for pedagogic and engineering purposes.

‘Mathematical undecidability and quantum randomness’.

Authors: Tomasz Paterek, Johannes Kofler, Robert Prevedel, Peter Klimek, Markus Aspelmeyer, Anton Zeilinger, Caslav Brukner

http://arxiv.org/abs/0811.4542

Abstract: We propose a new link between mathematical undecidability and quantum physics. We demonstrate that the states of elementary quantum systems are capable of encoding mathematical axioms and show that quantum measurements are capable of revealing whether a given proposition is decidable or not within the axiomatic system. Whenever a mathematical proposition is undecidable within the axioms encoded in the state, the measurement associated with the proposition gives random outcomes. Our results support the view that quantum randomness is irreducible and a manifestation of mathematical undecidability.

arXiv:0811.4542
arXiv:0901.3327

Isn’t this a statement of religious faith?

Basically, you are positing the many-world (MW) interpretation of mathematical logic (L), analogous to the MW interpretation of quantum mechanics (QM). I bet not all mathematicians believe in this MW interpretation of L, just like not all believe in God. Believing in either of these MW interpretations does not allow you to predict any distinctively-MW measurements, by definition. So, why care? At least in religion, having faith may score you some points in the afterlife. What is the benefit of faith in a MW interpretation of L?

“I suspect that such an interpretation is possible, that it is distinct from those previously proposed, and that it would have profound implications.”

Good luck. The interpretation of QM you posit already exists, has existed at least since Everett’s PhD thesis in 1957, and hasn’t produced any distinctively-MW predictions, because, guess what, it’s not supposed to, by definition