Comments on: Tales From The Industry XIII - Magnetic Moments http://asymptotia.com/2007/10/23/tales-from-the-industry-xiii-magnetic-moments/ Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:21:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Larry Stenger http://asymptotia.com/2007/10/23/tales-from-the-industry-xiii-magnetic-moments/#comment-99999 Larry Stenger Tue, 25 Dec 2007 19:02:39 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2007/10/23/tales-from-the-industry-xiii-magnetic-moments/#comment-99999 Regarding Super Nova observations, would it not be the creation of more iron ions within the sun's plasma that is the cause of the sun reaching critical mass. Sun spots are caused by magnetic currents of electrical power that suppress the upward flow of heat from the nuclear furnace. Given enough creation of iron, the magnetic fields would be stronger and extend over the surface of the sun creating a nuclear pressure cooker....iron is the last element to be formed before a Super Nova happens. I am no expert but perhaps someone in the right area of research could comment on this. Cheers, Larry Stenger Regarding Super Nova observations, would it not be the creation of more iron ions within the sun’s plasma that is the cause of the sun reaching critical mass. Sun spots are caused by magnetic currents of electrical power that suppress the upward flow of heat from the nuclear furnace. Given enough creation of iron, the magnetic fields would be stronger and extend over the surface of the sun creating a nuclear pressure cooker….iron is the last element to be formed before a Super Nova happens. I am no expert but perhaps someone in the right area of research could comment on this. Cheers, Larry Stenger

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2007/10/23/tales-from-the-industry-xiii-magnetic-moments/#comment-84749 Clifford Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:37:24 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2007/10/23/tales-from-the-industry-xiii-magnetic-moments/#comment-84749 I’m not sure what you mean by “bunk”. Your second statement does not contradict the first, in fact. That a store-bought bar magnet is not a perfect macroscopic dipole does not mean that the filings are not showing the patterns of field lines. What you’re saying is that perhaps a more refined version of the statement is that gradients in the field help them concentrate nicely in some areas more than others. But I think that you might be overstating the effect, since even in a perfect field, the symmetry is broken by the filings themselves. In fact, I’d guess that this is a more dominant effect than the one you mention. They are roughly all the same size, and they are paramagnetic, and so they would be very naturally pre-disposed to line up along the “field lines” and form a granular approximation to the underlying pattern where the scale of the granularity is set by their typical size, and the fact that they would not move too far from where you sprinkled them. I think that this scale is well above the scale that you’re talking about. I could be wrong, but I think the finite size of the filings is much more relevant. Cheers, -cvj I’m not sure what you mean by “bunk”. Your second statement does not contradict the first, in fact. That a store-bought bar magnet is not a perfect macroscopic dipole does not mean that the filings are not showing the patterns of field lines. What you’re saying is that perhaps a more refined version of the statement is that gradients in the field help them concentrate nicely in some areas more than others. But I think that you might be overstating the effect, since even in a perfect field, the symmetry is broken by the filings themselves. In fact, I’d guess that this is a more dominant effect than the one you mention. They are roughly all the same size, and they are paramagnetic, and so they would be very naturally pre-disposed to line up along the “field lines” and form a granular approximation to the underlying pattern where the scale of the granularity is set by their typical size, and the fact that they would not move too far from where you sprinkled them. I think that this scale is well above the scale that you’re talking about. I could be wrong, but I think the finite size of the filings is much more relevant.

Cheers,

-cvj

]]> By: Carl Brannen http://asymptotia.com/2007/10/23/tales-from-the-industry-xiii-magnetic-moments/#comment-84748 Carl Brannen Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:36:55 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2007/10/23/tales-from-the-industry-xiii-magnetic-moments/#comment-84748 Back when I was a kid, they told us that the “iron filings” for which a better (non rusting) substitute is what one mostly obtains when one runs a magnet through soil (at least where I grew up), namely <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetite" rel="nofollow">magnetite</a>, lined up along the field lines of the magnet. It was only after a lot of education that I realized that this was bunk. The field lines are symmetric. The magnetic material breaks the symmetry by making paths along which there are more field lines than average. The pattern we see is the breaking of the symmetry, not the field lines of a magnet with no iron filings. Back when I was a kid, they told us that the “iron filings” for which a better (non rusting) substitute is what one mostly obtains when one runs a magnet through soil (at least where I grew up), namely magnetite, lined up along the field lines of the magnet.

It was only after a lot of education that I realized that this was bunk. The field lines are symmetric. The magnetic material breaks the symmetry by making paths along which there are more field lines than average. The pattern we see is the breaking of the symmetry, not the field lines of a magnet with no iron filings.

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