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	<title>Comments on: The Man of Tomorrow?</title>
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		<title>By: A Peace Prize for Science - Asymptotia</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-84752</link>
		<dc:creator>A Peace Prize for Science - Asymptotia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/#comment-84752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] It could not stop there though. We live in a society where it is not enough to make a scientific case, since there are people and organizations that will try to confuse the issue for their own personal gains, and -most dismayingly- the vast majority of people are not going to be swayed by scientific arguments that they will never read, or take the time to understand, or consider as not personally relevant to their lives. This is where Al Gore (and others) comes in. You can read some of my recent thoughts about Al Gore&#8217;s role in all this in an earlier post entitled The Man of Tomorrow?, and so I won&#8217;t repeat all of that here, but here are some extracts:  [&#8230;] Iâ€™ve been very heartened by the pace of change that has happened in a short time with regards to people talking about the environment, and (some) people beginning to do something about it. Not become activists of the sack-cloth wearing sort, but merely thinking about the small things that individuals can do here and there that correspond to large changes when you add up the effort of millions. To begin thinking about changes to lifestyle and business practices that might make a real difference. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It could not stop there though. We live in a society where it is not enough to make a scientific case, since there are people and organizations that will try to confuse the issue for their own personal gains, and -most dismayingly- the vast majority of people are not going to be swayed by scientific arguments that they will never read, or take the time to understand, or consider as not personally relevant to their lives. This is where Al Gore (and others) comes in. You can read some of my recent thoughts about Al Gore&#8217;s role in all this in an earlier post entitled The Man of Tomorrow?, and so I won&#8217;t repeat all of that here, but here are some extracts:  [&#8230;] Iâ€™ve been very heartened by the pace of change that has happened in a short time with regards to people talking about the environment, and (some) people beginning to do something about it. Not become activists of the sack-cloth wearing sort, but merely thinking about the small things that individuals can do here and there that correspond to large changes when you add up the effort of millions. To begin thinking about changes to lifestyle and business practices that might make a real difference. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-65553</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 14:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/#comment-65553</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The last link on this page
http://hort.oregonstate.edu/research_extension/turf_management_info
(Eco lawns)
may be of interest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last link on this page<br />
<a href="http://hort.oregonstate.edu/research_extension/turf_management_info" rel="nofollow">http://hort.oregonstate.edu/research_extension/turf_management_info</a><br />
(Eco lawns)<br />
may be of interest.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-65551</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 13:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/#comment-65551</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m told (I don&#039;t know if this is an urban legend or what) that until the 50s or 60s American lawn seed included clover.  Clover is very attractive to bees.  I&#039;m also told that the original English lawns (from which the modern lawns are derived) had a wide variety of plants.  I suppose lawn aesthetics, like our notions of feminine beauty, have been driven into a narrow box by our modern culture.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m told (I don&#8217;t know if this is an urban legend or what) that until the 50s or 60s American lawn seed included clover.  Clover is very attractive to bees.  I&#8217;m also told that the original English lawns (from which the modern lawns are derived) had a wide variety of plants.  I suppose lawn aesthetics, like our notions of feminine beauty, have been driven into a narrow box by our modern culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-65539</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 12:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/#comment-65539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They&#039;re almost certainly using a huge amount, of course. 

And about the native varieties. A lovely spray of wildflowers is not going to spring forth of its own accord. A garden is a garden. It is a deliberate thing. Whether it be a &quot;wild&quot; one not. If you wanted wildflowers to come back, you&#039;d have needed to plant some. The thing to do when you have doubts about water is to have a backbone of drought tolerant plants (or at least relatively) as a sort of superstructure on top of which the rest of the garden will sit. If you have to stop watering for a while, it won&#039;t matter as much then.

-cvj]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;re almost certainly using a huge amount, of course. </p>
<p>And about the native varieties. A lovely spray of wildflowers is not going to spring forth of its own accord. A garden is a garden. It is a deliberate thing. Whether it be a &#8220;wild&#8221; one not. If you wanted wildflowers to come back, you&#8217;d have needed to plant some. The thing to do when you have doubts about water is to have a backbone of drought tolerant plants (or at least relatively) as a sort of superstructure on top of which the rest of the garden will sit. If you have to stop watering for a while, it won&#8217;t matter as much then.</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Jude</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-65482</link>
		<dc:creator>Jude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 07:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/#comment-65482</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know about the problems with monocultures.  But there&#039;s also a huge problem associated with irrigation.  In my town, people are forbidden to water their lawns for the next three days because there&#039;s a water shortage.  I can still water my lawn because I have a well.  A few years ago, when I was *really* poor, I couldn&#039;t afford the electricity for the pump, so the yard died.  Now that I&#039;m watering it again, what&#039;s grown back aren&#039;t lovely native wildflowers (which would grow sparsely here anyway because it&#039;s so dry), but nearly all invasive exotics.  When I&#039;ve visited the gardens by the Music Tent, I&#039;ve wondered how much they use pesticides and fertilizer.  It&#039;s my curse to *always* wonder about such things--to enjoy the beauty, but wonder about the cost.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know about the problems with monocultures.  But there&#8217;s also a huge problem associated with irrigation.  In my town, people are forbidden to water their lawns for the next three days because there&#8217;s a water shortage.  I can still water my lawn because I have a well.  A few years ago, when I was *really* poor, I couldn&#8217;t afford the electricity for the pump, so the yard died.  Now that I&#8217;m watering it again, what&#8217;s grown back aren&#8217;t lovely native wildflowers (which would grow sparsely here anyway because it&#8217;s so dry), but nearly all invasive exotics.  When I&#8217;ve visited the gardens by the Music Tent, I&#8217;ve wondered how much they use pesticides and fertilizer.  It&#8217;s my curse to *always* wonder about such things&#8211;to enjoy the beauty, but wonder about the cost.</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-65467</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 04:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/#comment-65467</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[HI,

Thanks for the excellent observations. One thing though: I think you misunderstood my point about lawns. Irrigation is not the main issue with lawns vs wildflowers or other types of meadows. Far from it. Lawns are these highly over-specialized monocultures fed with huge amounts of pesticides, water, and fertilizers. They also benefit far fewer in the way of species that would like to pollinate them, eat them, and/or lay eggs on them... Now compare that all to flowers, or a variety-filled patch of drought-tolerant (or even just semi) plants. And the latter are much more interesting to look at too.

I do think that Aspen does have a component of people who care about the environment, but I agree that it is much easier to be environmentally aware when you are wealthy enough to pick and choose your conveniences. I&#039;m not super-wealthy myself, but even in my situation (professor, reasonably stable salary and so forth) I know that I&#039;m privileged to be able to make some of the environmentally conscious choices that I do. Should I stop making those choice because for every person like me who does there are 1000 or more people who won&#039;t or can&#039;t? No.

I also agree with you about Gore, and the presidency, all things taken into account. It is hard to put aside things like Iraq, as I said in the post. Nevertheless, on the environmental matters I spoke of, taken on their own, I&#039;m just not so sure he would have achieved as much in office as he has  now set the stage for us to achieve....

Thanks,


-cvj]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI,</p>
<p>Thanks for the excellent observations. One thing though: I think you misunderstood my point about lawns. Irrigation is not the main issue with lawns vs wildflowers or other types of meadows. Far from it. Lawns are these highly over-specialized monocultures fed with huge amounts of pesticides, water, and fertilizers. They also benefit far fewer in the way of species that would like to pollinate them, eat them, and/or lay eggs on them&#8230; Now compare that all to flowers, or a variety-filled patch of drought-tolerant (or even just semi) plants. And the latter are much more interesting to look at too.</p>
<p>I do think that Aspen does have a component of people who care about the environment, but I agree that it is much easier to be environmentally aware when you are wealthy enough to pick and choose your conveniences. I&#8217;m not super-wealthy myself, but even in my situation (professor, reasonably stable salary and so forth) I know that I&#8217;m privileged to be able to make some of the environmentally conscious choices that I do. Should I stop making those choice because for every person like me who does there are 1000 or more people who won&#8217;t or can&#8217;t? No.</p>
<p>I also agree with you about Gore, and the presidency, all things taken into account. It is hard to put aside things like Iraq, as I said in the post. Nevertheless, on the environmental matters I spoke of, taken on their own, I&#8217;m just not so sure he would have achieved as much in office as he has  now set the stage for us to achieve&#8230;.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Jude</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/comment-page-1/#comment-65464</link>
		<dc:creator>Jude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 03:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/07/20/the-man-of-tomorrow/#comment-65464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clifford, even if they planted a wildflower garden on the grounds of the Aspen Institute, they&#039;d still irrigate it.  Here&#039;s a chart of Aspen&#039;s average monthly precipitation  http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliFPrecM.pl?co0370+1  I&#039;m not certain how many inches that translates to in a year, but considering that if you can *find* a natural landscape in Aspen, it will have cactus, I&#039;d say that Aspen probably is only slightly less arid than where I live, 70 miles away (by road).

First of all, even though a few people live consciously, as you do, I&#039;d say for every person in the U.S. who lives a consciously environmental life, there might be 1,000 who don&#039;t.  That is probably an underestimate.  Because I live in a relatively poor community, the contrasts for me are obvious--count how many private jets are parked in the Aspen airport on any weekend, summer or winter.  Figure out the population density of the average multi-millionaire dollar home.  I&#039;ve only stayed in one of them where a friend was the caretaker, and it was astonishingly opulent, with a huge bathroom and jacuzzi in even the guest bedrooms.  Visit Aspen in the winter, when fur-clad women toddle through town on high-heeled boots.  Note that *every* yard in Aspen is beautiful, and is filled with wildflowers and Kentucky bluegrass.  Almost nothing is native or xeriscaped.

I&#039;m glad that Al Gore has continued with his environmental activism and helped change people&#039;s minds, but I cannot agree that he&#039;s done more good by *not* being president.  I have no doubts that he would have evacuated New Orleans after Katrina expeditiously and that he&#039;d be rebuilding it in a coherent manner now (with perhaps a Netherlands-type ocean project to protect the rebuilt city).  I have no doubt that we would not be in Iraq.  I have no doubt that the world would be a better place.  For one thing, Gore can think; he can write well (imagine having a president who can *write*); and he can accomplish things.

On Tuesday, I&#039;ll head to a concert in Aspen.  I&#039;d like to take the bus there, but I can&#039;t because while they&#039;ve added a few hours to the Rifle to Aspen schedule, there still aren&#039;t enough to accommodate the hours I need to be there.  Although I could ride the bus for free within Aspen, it would cost $9.00 one-way for me to take the bus to Aspen.  So for the three members of my family, that would be $54 to attend a free concert.   Since most people who work in Aspen can&#039;t afford to live there, nearly everyone commutes from somewhere, many of them from my town or farther away.  I guess they have a few better deals for regular commuters ($81 unlimited ride pass for adults for a month, for example--still not a great deal for once-weekly concert goers).  

In my town, this year many of the poorer people have stopped irrigating their lawns because the price of water has almost doubled.  Most of the poorer people cannot afford fancy xeriscaped landscaping either, so the former lawns are now just dead grass.  I think of that every time I view the perfect lawns of Aspen.

Aspen may not be the drain on the environment that other ski towns represent--surely all the ski towns in Summit County are far worse because it&#039;s so much colder there, and you cannot survive without extensive heating.  But Aspen is a drain.  It represents the top percentage of conspicuous consumption in the United States.  It&#039;s as artificial as Los Angeles, Phoenix, or Tucson, all built on borrowed water.  I love it anyway.  It makes me feel great to go to Aspen and wander through the gardens near the Music Tent.  But I think that Aspenites don&#039;t ride bikes because they&#039;re environmentalists--it&#039;s because they live in Aspen, and it isn&#039;t trendy to be fat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clifford, even if they planted a wildflower garden on the grounds of the Aspen Institute, they&#8217;d still irrigate it.  Here&#8217;s a chart of Aspen&#8217;s average monthly precipitation  <a href="http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliFPrecM.pl?co0370+1" rel="nofollow">http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliFPrecM.pl?co0370+1</a>  I&#8217;m not certain how many inches that translates to in a year, but considering that if you can *find* a natural landscape in Aspen, it will have cactus, I&#8217;d say that Aspen probably is only slightly less arid than where I live, 70 miles away (by road).</p>
<p>First of all, even though a few people live consciously, as you do, I&#8217;d say for every person in the U.S. who lives a consciously environmental life, there might be 1,000 who don&#8217;t.  That is probably an underestimate.  Because I live in a relatively poor community, the contrasts for me are obvious&#8211;count how many private jets are parked in the Aspen airport on any weekend, summer or winter.  Figure out the population density of the average multi-millionaire dollar home.  I&#8217;ve only stayed in one of them where a friend was the caretaker, and it was astonishingly opulent, with a huge bathroom and jacuzzi in even the guest bedrooms.  Visit Aspen in the winter, when fur-clad women toddle through town on high-heeled boots.  Note that *every* yard in Aspen is beautiful, and is filled with wildflowers and Kentucky bluegrass.  Almost nothing is native or xeriscaped.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad that Al Gore has continued with his environmental activism and helped change people&#8217;s minds, but I cannot agree that he&#8217;s done more good by *not* being president.  I have no doubts that he would have evacuated New Orleans after Katrina expeditiously and that he&#8217;d be rebuilding it in a coherent manner now (with perhaps a Netherlands-type ocean project to protect the rebuilt city).  I have no doubt that we would not be in Iraq.  I have no doubt that the world would be a better place.  For one thing, Gore can think; he can write well (imagine having a president who can *write*); and he can accomplish things.</p>
<p>On Tuesday, I&#8217;ll head to a concert in Aspen.  I&#8217;d like to take the bus there, but I can&#8217;t because while they&#8217;ve added a few hours to the Rifle to Aspen schedule, there still aren&#8217;t enough to accommodate the hours I need to be there.  Although I could ride the bus for free within Aspen, it would cost $9.00 one-way for me to take the bus to Aspen.  So for the three members of my family, that would be $54 to attend a free concert.   Since most people who work in Aspen can&#8217;t afford to live there, nearly everyone commutes from somewhere, many of them from my town or farther away.  I guess they have a few better deals for regular commuters ($81 unlimited ride pass for adults for a month, for example&#8211;still not a great deal for once-weekly concert goers).  </p>
<p>In my town, this year many of the poorer people have stopped irrigating their lawns because the price of water has almost doubled.  Most of the poorer people cannot afford fancy xeriscaped landscaping either, so the former lawns are now just dead grass.  I think of that every time I view the perfect lawns of Aspen.</p>
<p>Aspen may not be the drain on the environment that other ski towns represent&#8211;surely all the ski towns in Summit County are far worse because it&#8217;s so much colder there, and you cannot survive without extensive heating.  But Aspen is a drain.  It represents the top percentage of conspicuous consumption in the United States.  It&#8217;s as artificial as Los Angeles, Phoenix, or Tucson, all built on borrowed water.  I love it anyway.  It makes me feel great to go to Aspen and wander through the gardens near the Music Tent.  But I think that Aspenites don&#8217;t ride bikes because they&#8217;re environmentalists&#8211;it&#8217;s because they live in Aspen, and it isn&#8217;t trendy to be fat.</p>
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