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	<title>Comments on: The Future is Orange</title>
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	<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Stephen Uitti</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-43719</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Uitti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2007 14:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-43719</guid>
		<description>Solar power is inefficient?  It's basically free.  About a horsepower per square meter.  The real question is this:  Is it dangerous?

Mirrors are easy to make and maintain.  We know steam-&gt;electricity really pretty well now.  This isn't photovoltaics.  I'd bet that nearly half of the energy comes out of wire.  The heat generated and vented is heat you'd get from the Sun anyway.  In fact, cooling towers probably radiat this heat into space more efficiently than it would happen naturally.

Contrast this with Nuclear power.  The fuel is about $10 per megawatt hour.  Nearly free.  But the end cost is as high as coal, etc.  And that's without worrying about spent fuel. Why?  Well, the stuff is so dangerous that you have to check, double check, triple check, and then provide an absurdly long paper trail for any little thing you do.  The result is that it's just as expensive, if not more than anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Solar power is inefficient?  It&#8217;s basically free.  About a horsepower per square meter.  The real question is this:  Is it dangerous?</p>
<p>Mirrors are easy to make and maintain.  We know steam-&gt;electricity really pretty well now.  This isn&#8217;t photovoltaics.  I&#8217;d bet that nearly half of the energy comes out of wire.  The heat generated and vented is heat you&#8217;d get from the Sun anyway.  In fact, cooling towers probably radiat this heat into space more efficiently than it would happen naturally.</p>
<p>Contrast this with Nuclear power.  The fuel is about $10 per megawatt hour.  Nearly free.  But the end cost is as high as coal, etc.  And that&#8217;s without worrying about spent fuel. Why?  Well, the stuff is so dangerous that you have to check, double check, triple check, and then provide an absurdly long paper trail for any little thing you do.  The result is that it&#8217;s just as expensive, if not more than anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-43068</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 22:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-43068</guid>
		<description>11 MW?  So they only need to build 226 more of these to match the generating capacity of a 2.5 GW nuclear plant...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>11 MW?  So they only need to build 226 more of these to match the generating capacity of a 2.5 GW nuclear plant&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Mison</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-42914</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Mison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 09:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-42914</guid>
		<description>There have been several similar plants in the south-western US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_plants_in_the_Mojave_Desert

As the article implies, for California peak load tends to happen at the times when peak generation would occur, which is handy. Unfortunately that breaks down for the UK (there's much less air conditioning and it's colder in winter, so peak energy demands are in winter evenings).

It's odd, but I've seen pricing that implies that solar thermal heating is actually more cost-effective than photovoltaics, even though you have to go through all the extra steps (heating water, running turbines) than you do with something that generates electricity from the start. Presumably this is to do with the high cost and low efficiency of the current generation of solar cells. 

Solar heating is also much better in a domestic context - presumably this is what's referred to in spyder's comment - since you can heat and store water for domestic use. Storing hot water is a lot easier than storing electricity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There have been several similar plants in the south-western US: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_plants_in_the_Mojave_Desert" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_plants_in_the_Mojave_Desert</a></p>
<p>As the article implies, for California peak load tends to happen at the times when peak generation would occur, which is handy. Unfortunately that breaks down for the UK (there&#8217;s much less air conditioning and it&#8217;s colder in winter, so peak energy demands are in winter evenings).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s odd, but I&#8217;ve seen pricing that implies that solar thermal heating is actually more cost-effective than photovoltaics, even though you have to go through all the extra steps (heating water, running turbines) than you do with something that generates electricity from the start. Presumably this is to do with the high cost and low efficiency of the current generation of solar cells. </p>
<p>Solar heating is also much better in a domestic context - presumably this is what&#8217;s referred to in spyder&#8217;s comment - since you can heat and store water for domestic use. Storing hot water is a lot easier than storing electricity.</p>
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		<title>By: candace</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-42907</link>
		<dc:creator>candace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 09:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-42907</guid>
		<description>The future is orange == seville oranges (used in marmalade) + a mobile phone company (Orange) slogan.

This is an interesting project, but it still strikes me that solar power is awfully inefficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The future is orange == seville oranges (used in marmalade) + a mobile phone company (Orange) slogan.</p>
<p>This is an interesting project, but it still strikes me that solar power is awfully inefficient.</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-42862</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 06:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-42862</guid>
		<description>ak -  That's really interesting.. I did not know Canada was going to be doing something like that so soon, and so boldly.... Thanks for the link!

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ak -  That&#8217;s really interesting.. I did not know Canada was going to be doing something like that so soon, and so boldly&#8230;. Thanks for the link!</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: ak</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-42857</link>
		<dc:creator>ak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 06:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-42857</guid>
		<description>Canada's Ontario government just signed a contract with a California company to build a massive commercial solar energy plant in Sarnia, close to Detroit across the border. It will have 1 million solar panels generating 40 MW. 

http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/index.cfm?fuseaction=english.news&amp;body=yes&amp;news_id=149</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Canada&#8217;s Ontario government just signed a contract with a California company to build a massive commercial solar energy plant in Sarnia, close to Detroit across the border. It will have 1 million solar panels generating 40 MW. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/index.cfm?fuseaction=english.news&amp;body=yes&amp;news_id=149" rel="nofollow">http://www.energy.gov.on.ca/index.cfm?fuseaction=english.news&amp;body=yes&amp;news_id=149</a></p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-42849</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 06:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-42849</guid>
		<description>Pyracantha:- The phrase means nothing in the USA, but it is probably familiar to people from the UK. The connection is the location, of course.

Anyone?

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pyracantha:- The phrase means nothing in the USA, but it is probably familiar to people from the UK. The connection is the location, of course.</p>
<p>Anyone?</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Brannen</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-42836</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Brannen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 05:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-42836</guid>
		<description>Did you happen to see where the cooling towers were?  I.e. what do they do with all that spent steam.  I would think it would generate steam clouds that would reduce the plant's efficiency but of course they would avoid that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you happen to see where the cooling towers were?  I.e. what do they do with all that spent steam.  I would think it would generate steam clouds that would reduce the plant&#8217;s efficiency but of course they would avoid that.</p>
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		<title>By: Pyracantha</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-42815</link>
		<dc:creator>Pyracantha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 03:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-42815</guid>
		<description>Why orange? (It's my favorite color, I even have an orange car.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why orange? (It&#8217;s my favorite color, I even have an orange car.)</p>
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		<title>By: Life on the Lattice</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-42699</link>
		<dc:creator>Life on the Lattice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 18:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-42699</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;SciFi'ish Sunshine Scene...&lt;/strong&gt;

Via Clifford Johnson, a link to a BBC report about the first commercially operating solar thermal power plant in Europe.  [...]...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>SciFi&#8217;ish Sunshine Scene&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Via Clifford Johnson, a link to a BBC report about the first commercially operating solar thermal power plant in Europe.  [...]&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: spyder</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-42698</link>
		<dc:creator>spyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 18:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2007/05/03/the-future-is-orange/#comment-42698</guid>
		<description>Now if CA can pass a second and third (and ever more) million solar roofs bills, then a few of these plants located around the state could power it right up for centuries.  I can't imagine what keeps that from happening????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now if CA can pass a second and third (and ever more) million solar roofs bills, then a few of these plants located around the state could power it right up for centuries.  I can&#8217;t imagine what keeps that from happening????</p>
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