Comments on: Attack of the Clones? http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/ Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:41:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Stephen Uitti http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-23328 Stephen Uitti Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:15:28 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-23328 I've recently learned that domestic turkey can't breed except by artificial insemination. That's because through breeding over the years, they have such a large breast that they can't do the mount. Pretty silly. One could say that these turkeys are very successful under domestication by humans. But when humans go the way of the dinosaur, so do the turkeys. At least we still have wild turkeys. Gobble gobble. When the current uncontrolled Climate Change experiment is over, it will be us and the turkeys. The whole of the Earth will be unrecognizable. What bothers me is that the Biosphere II experiment failed. That is, it turned out to be unsustainable. And that was a controlled experiment. What we like to do with important controlled experiments like Biosphere II is de-fund them. We can get to Mars without it. I’ve recently learned that domestic turkey can’t breed except by artificial insemination. That’s because through breeding over the years, they have such a large breast that they can’t do the mount. Pretty silly. One could say that these turkeys are very successful under domestication by humans. But when humans go the way of the dinosaur, so do the turkeys.

At least we still have wild turkeys.

Gobble gobble.

When the current uncontrolled Climate Change experiment is over, it will be us and the turkeys. The whole of the Earth will be unrecognizable. What bothers me is that the Biosphere II experiment failed. That is, it turned out to be unsustainable. And that was a controlled experiment. What we like to do with important controlled experiments like Biosphere II is de-fund them. We can get to Mars without it.

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-23287 Clifford Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:38:48 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-23287 Jerry Crowther:- Thanks, but I think you're missing the point I was making. -cvj Jerry Crowther:- Thanks, but I think you’re missing the point I was making.

-cvj

]]> By: Jerry Crowther http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-23276 Jerry Crowther Tue, 02 Jan 2007 15:47:53 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-23276 Whether or not the meat or its byproducts are from cloned animals makes no difference to me. How do you think cattle are reproduced now? Artificial insemination. Last time I bought a filet mignon, there was no ‘warning label’ about the evils of non natural procreation. Cloning is no different. IMHO, it’s preferred. The cattle farmer can pick and choose his very best cattle, and reproduce it indefinitely, and I can have the same tasty cut every time. Whether or not the meat or its byproducts are from cloned animals makes no difference to me. How do you think cattle are reproduced now? Artificial insemination. Last time I bought a filet mignon, there was no ‘warning label’ about the evils of non natural procreation. Cloning is no different. IMHO, it’s preferred. The cattle farmer can pick and choose his very best cattle, and reproduce it indefinitely, and I can have the same tasty cut every time.

]]> By: Arun http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22881 Arun Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:58:03 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22881 "Some companies are already planning ways in which to optimise their opposition to using modified foods. A spokesman for Ben & Jerry's said it planned to make clear that its products would not include produce from cloned animals. " from: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1229-01.htm “Some companies are already planning ways in which to optimise their opposition to using modified foods. A spokesman for Ben & Jerry’s said it planned to make clear that its products would not include produce from cloned animals. ”

from:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1229-01.htm

]]> By: spyder http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22827 spyder Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:45:31 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22827 Want to trust the government to make sound choices and good decisions about the scientific merits of cloning and labelling of food products? Look no further than this horrific story:<a href="http://www.attytood.com/2006/12/weird_science.html" rel="nofollow"> “Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate</a> of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees. Despite promising a prompt review of its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s flood rather than by geologic forces, more than three years later no review has ever been done and the book remains on sale at the park.” Want to trust the government to make sound choices and good decisions about the scientific merits of cloning and labelling of food products? Look no further than this horrific story: “Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees. Despite promising a prompt review of its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s flood rather than by geologic forces, more than three years later no review has ever been done and the book remains on sale at the park.”

]]> By: Arun http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22817 Arun Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:46:41 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22817 Presumably the industry does not want to deal with the cost of information, unless there is a benefit. If there is consumer demand for non-cloned, "happy" animal meat, or a premium chargeable for such then the industry will provide it. Presumably the industry does not want to deal with the cost of information, unless there is a benefit. If there is consumer demand for non-cloned, “happy” animal meat, or a premium chargeable for such then the industry will provide it.

]]> By: spyder http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22756 spyder Thu, 28 Dec 2006 19:31:47 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22756 Giving up the eating of most meat and fish, as well as any non-organic dairy (and organic must be California certified as the rest of the nation's efforts are factually flawed), i don't really care that much about the genetic manipulation of cows and what not. However, last summer Harpers ran a piece <a href="http://www.geocities.com/thetropics/shores/7484/columns/modernpig.htm" rel="nofollow">by Nathanael Johnson called <i>the Swine of the Times: the making of the modern pig</i></a> in which some very startling and depressing changes are occuring in our food sources. Among his findings:<blockquote>Geneticists have made great strides in the last decade. The portion of the hog that people can actually eat (as opposed to the skin, bones, and fat) has increased by 1.04 percent—the equivalent of an extra pork chop per pig. Scientists have shaved 12.9 days off the time it takes the animal to reach market weight and increased the area of the loin eye (used as an indicator for general muscle size) by 1.9 centimeters. Sows give birth to an average of 1.56 more piglets per litter. Today’s pigs are impressively uniform and grow large lean muscles quickly. But the pork has become so lean that packers often have to inject saline marinades directly into the meat—and chefs must drown it in heavy sauces—to make it palatable. What’s more, a combination of over–breeding and stressful living conditions makes a percentage of our pork more acidic and less tasty than it used to be. Standing in an Iowa State University lecture hall, flanked by dual Power Point screens, food scientist Ken Prusa told the swine improvers that the future of the industry lay in providing customers a “positive taste experience.” And providing a positive taste experience means providing less acidic pork, Prusa said. In pork, acids break down muscle tissue, turning it to mush, bleaching it of color and giving it a slightly sour taste. The industry calls this condition “pale soft exudative” or PSE. Prusa held up a plastic–wrapped loin to the audience. The pale meat slumped around his hand. “What’s all this reddish liquid sloshing around?” he asked. “Exudate,” someone called out. “Purge,” said another. “Water.” “Right,” Prusa said. To be exact, the fluid is mostly water with some iron, proteins, and trace minerals mixed in. He clicked to a slide showing a microscope photograph of healthy muscle, honeycombed with cell walls. Then he clicked to a picture of pale, soft, exudative meat. The slide showed only a mass of gray. “When the cell structure breaks down like this, the meat loses ability to retain water,” Prusa said.</blockquote> I can only imagine, as we lose more and more of the diversity of our domesticated animal species, that the future of meat proteins begins to look more and more like Soylent Green. Giving up the eating of most meat and fish, as well as any non-organic dairy (and organic must be California certified as the rest of the nation’s efforts are factually flawed), i don’t really care that much about the genetic manipulation of cows and what not. However, last summer Harpers ran a piece by Nathanael Johnson called the Swine of the Times: the making of the modern pig in which some very startling and depressing changes are occuring in our food sources. Among his findings:
Geneticists have made great strides in the last decade. The portion of the hog that people can actually eat (as opposed to the skin, bones, and fat) has increased by 1.04 percent—the equivalent of an extra pork chop per pig. Scientists have shaved 12.9 days off the time it takes the animal to reach market weight and increased the area of the loin eye (used as an indicator for general muscle size) by 1.9 centimeters. Sows give birth to an average of 1.56 more piglets per litter. Today’s pigs are impressively uniform and grow large lean muscles quickly. But the pork has become so lean that packers often have to inject saline marinades directly into the meat—and chefs must drown it in heavy sauces—to make it palatable. What’s more, a combination of over–breeding and stressful living conditions makes a percentage of our pork more acidic and less tasty than it used to be.

Standing in an Iowa State University lecture hall, flanked by dual Power Point screens, food scientist Ken Prusa told the swine improvers that the future of the industry lay in providing customers a “positive taste experience.” And providing a positive taste experience means providing less acidic pork, Prusa said.

In pork, acids break down muscle tissue, turning it to mush, bleaching it of color and giving it a slightly sour taste. The industry calls this condition “pale soft exudative” or PSE. Prusa held up a plastic–wrapped loin to the audience. The pale meat slumped around his hand.

“What’s all this reddish liquid sloshing around?” he asked.

“Exudate,” someone called out. “Purge,” said another. “Water.”

“Right,” Prusa said. To be exact, the fluid is mostly water with some iron, proteins, and trace minerals mixed in. He clicked to a slide showing a microscope photograph of healthy muscle, honeycombed with cell walls. Then he clicked to a picture of pale, soft, exudative meat. The slide showed only a mass of gray.

“When the cell structure breaks down like this, the meat loses ability to retain water,” Prusa said.

I can only imagine, as we lose more and more of the diversity of our domesticated animal species, that the future of meat proteins begins to look more and more like Soylent Green.

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22744 Clifford Thu, 28 Dec 2006 16:01:08 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22744 Yes, the resulting problem with bananas is severe, since they are very prone to diseases that can wipe out huge crops due to lack of diversity. But cloned plants is not the issue. -cvj Yes, the resulting problem with bananas is severe, since they are very prone to diseases that can wipe out huge crops due to lack of diversity.

But cloned plants is not the issue.

-cvj

]]> By: Arun http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22743 Arun Thu, 28 Dec 2006 15:45:25 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/12/27/attack-of-the-clones/#comment-22743 Plants grown from cuttings produce cloned food! I think for most part, bananas are cloned. Lack of genetic diversity in cultivars is a problem. E.g., http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/no_bananas.shtml Plants grown from cuttings produce cloned food!
I think for most part, bananas are cloned.
Lack of genetic diversity in cultivars is a problem.

E.g.,

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/no_bananas.shtml

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