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	<title>Comments on: When Chaos Goes Quantum</title>
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	<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Plato</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4557</link>
		<dc:creator>Plato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4557</guid>
		<description>Could you change the "new physics" link to this one and delete this post as well if you still feel it is not appropriate.

http://bulletin.cern.ch/eng/articles.php?bullno=42/2006&#38;base=art

When Chaos Goes Quantumâ€  ?

&lt;a href="http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/pic/" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;All events shown here (except KEK test detector) were generated by Monte-Carlo simulation program, written by Clark. The visualizing software which produced the detector images was written by Tomasz.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/a&gt; 

While &lt;a href="http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/10/13/sun-shots/" rel="nofollow"&gt;the sun&lt;/a&gt; was easily recognizable building "monte carlo" patterns in computer technology developed from &lt;a href="http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/" rel="nofollow"&gt;SNO work&lt;/a&gt; made such views easily discernible?

Imagine putting all that information through a "single point" in the LHC? Who knows what your going to get?

The complexity of the information seems well, like, "ligo information" being transcribed into a working image of the cosmos?  Stephen Wolfram's cellular automata?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you change the &#8220;new physics&#8221; link to this one and delete this post as well if you still feel it is not appropriate.</p>
<p><a href="http://bulletin.cern.ch/eng/articles.php?bullno=42/2006&amp;base=art" rel="nofollow">http://bulletin.cern.ch/eng/articles.php?bullno=42/2006&amp;base=art</a></p>
<p>When Chaos Goes Quantumâ€  ?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/pic/" rel="nofollow"><br />
<blockquote>All events shown here (except KEK test detector) were generated by Monte-Carlo simulation program, written by Clark. The visualizing software which produced the detector images was written by Tomasz.</p></blockquote>
<p></a> </p>
<p>While <a href="http://cosmicvariance.com/2006/10/13/sun-shots/" rel="nofollow">the sun</a> was easily recognizable building &#8220;monte carlo&#8221; patterns in computer technology developed from <a href="http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/" rel="nofollow">SNO work</a> made such views easily discernible?</p>
<p>Imagine putting all that information through a &#8220;single point&#8221; in the LHC? Who knows what your going to get?</p>
<p>The complexity of the information seems well, like, &#8220;ligo information&#8221; being transcribed into a working image of the cosmos?  Stephen Wolfram&#8217;s cellular automata?</p>
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		<title>By: Plato</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4532</link>
		<dc:creator>Plato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4532</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Moshe&lt;/b&gt;:&lt;i&gt;You mean to say that a system settling to equilibrium behaves thermally only with repect to certain observables? and those observables can be characterized in some precise quantitative way?&lt;/i&gt;

I think while the views of beauty may have become quite complex quantatively, how does one pass all this if one had not realized what reductionistic features have done all the while observations are being looked at beyond &lt;a href="http://cerncourier.com/objects/2006/CCEnew6_07-06.gif" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;the Can&lt;/a&gt;?

So seeing such pictures as &lt;a href="http://www.ps.uci.edu/~tomba/sk/tscan/tscan-pic-01.gif" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, are indeed striking? As well as the ideal behind what "viscosity states" may have implied of the perfect fluid? Characteristcs of superfluids?

It's all a complex puzzle for the layman mind to encapsulate what &lt;a href="http://bulletin.cern.ch/eng/earticles.php?bullno=42/2006&#38;base=art#Article1" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;new physics&lt;/a&gt; has emerged.


&lt;em&gt;[A second comment by Plato was deleted  since it contained too many highly irrelevant links. Sorry. -cvj]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Moshe</b>:<i>You mean to say that a system settling to equilibrium behaves thermally only with repect to certain observables? and those observables can be characterized in some precise quantitative way?</i></p>
<p>I think while the views of beauty may have become quite complex quantatively, how does one pass all this if one had not realized what reductionistic features have done all the while observations are being looked at beyond <a href="http://cerncourier.com/objects/2006/CCEnew6_07-06.gif" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">the Can</a>?</p>
<p>So seeing such pictures as <a href="http://www.ps.uci.edu/~tomba/sk/tscan/tscan-pic-01.gif" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">this</a>, are indeed striking? As well as the ideal behind what &#8220;viscosity states&#8221; may have implied of the perfect fluid? Characteristcs of superfluids?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all a complex puzzle for the layman mind to encapsulate what <a href="http://bulletin.cern.ch/eng/earticles.php?bullno=42/2006&amp;base=art#Article1" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">new physics</a> has emerged.</p>
<p><em>[A second comment by Plato was deleted  since it contained too many highly irrelevant links. Sorry. -cvj]</em></p>
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		<title>By: Mark Srednicki</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4527</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Srednicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4527</guid>
		<description>Clifford, very nice post and an excellent summary!  If anyone is interested in the thermal stuff, my papers chao-dyn/9511001 and cond-mat/9809360 are the best place to look.

And thanks for the invitation and your kind hospitality, I had a great time!

Cheers,
Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clifford, very nice post and an excellent summary!  If anyone is interested in the thermal stuff, my papers chao-dyn/9511001 and cond-mat/9809360 are the best place to look.</p>
<p>And thanks for the invitation and your kind hospitality, I had a great time!</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Mark</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron S.</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4519</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4519</guid>
		<description>"Your question is interesting. I believe that you are asking if the vacuum can be driven into a superconducting phase by low temperature, thus affecting the propagation of light and gravity. Very interesting question. The naive answer is no, since there is no property of the vacuum that is affected by low ordinary temperature that impinges on the propagation of neutral massless particles such as photons and gravitons."

thanks clifford... i will have the link up in a couple of days...

follow up question...

IF (and i am sure that you have had every nut, tom, dick, and harry say this to you) we allow for the very minute amount of mass that light has, wouldn't this change things?

I agree that light has so small an amount of mass that it is considered nil, but an infinite amount of very near nil can add up to alot...

also.. if energy and mass are really two states of the same thing, then at what point to the two interect with an enviroment differently? ie; at what point during the change from mass into energy does it change?

thanks for all your help!

Aaron</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Your question is interesting. I believe that you are asking if the vacuum can be driven into a superconducting phase by low temperature, thus affecting the propagation of light and gravity. Very interesting question. The naive answer is no, since there is no property of the vacuum that is affected by low ordinary temperature that impinges on the propagation of neutral massless particles such as photons and gravitons.&#8221;</p>
<p>thanks clifford&#8230; i will have the link up in a couple of days&#8230;</p>
<p>follow up question&#8230;</p>
<p>IF (and i am sure that you have had every nut, tom, dick, and harry say this to you) we allow for the very minute amount of mass that light has, wouldn&#8217;t this change things?</p>
<p>I agree that light has so small an amount of mass that it is considered nil, but an infinite amount of very near nil can add up to alot&#8230;</p>
<p>also.. if energy and mass are really two states of the same thing, then at what point to the two interect with an enviroment differently? ie; at what point during the change from mass into energy does it change?</p>
<p>thanks for all your help!</p>
<p>Aaron</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4509</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4509</guid>
		<description>Aaron S. (1) Link away. (2) Your question is interesting. I believe that you are asking if the vacuum can be driven into a superconducting phase by low temperature, thus affecting the propagation of light and gravity. Very interesting question. The naive answer is no, since there is no property of the vacuum that is affected by low ordinary temperature that impinges on the propagation of neutral massless particles such as photons and gravitons.  

Robert: -  Thanks!

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron S. (1) Link away. (2) Your question is interesting. I believe that you are asking if the vacuum can be driven into a superconducting phase by low temperature, thus affecting the propagation of light and gravity. Very interesting question. The naive answer is no, since there is no property of the vacuum that is affected by low ordinary temperature that impinges on the propagation of neutral massless particles such as photons and gravitons.  </p>
<p>Robert: -  Thanks!</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4491</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4491</guid>
		<description>On the KITP website of recorded talks they also have blackboard lunch seminar by Srednicki which might cover similiar subjects:

http://online.itp.ucsb.edu/online/bblunch/

So for people who want to hear the story....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the KITP website of recorded talks they also have blackboard lunch seminar by Srednicki which might cover similiar subjects:</p>
<p><a href="http://online.itp.ucsb.edu/online/bblunch/" rel="nofollow">http://online.itp.ucsb.edu/online/bblunch/</a></p>
<p>So for people who want to hear the story&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4479</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4479</guid>
		<description>You mean to say that a system settling to equilibrium behaves thermally only with repect to certain observables? and those observables can be characterized in some precise quantitative way?

If so, wow, it is fascinating!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean to say that a system settling to equilibrium behaves thermally only with repect to certain observables? and those observables can be characterized in some precise quantitative way?</p>
<p>If so, wow, it is fascinating!</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron S.</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4478</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/11/13/when-chaos-goes-quantum/#comment-4478</guid>
		<description>I just skimmed the topic above, i am here on advice from the people over at cosmic variance.

two questions here realy... 

1, may i link your site to mine?

and 2... (i am a layman when it comes to physics. no schooling except what i have read out of a book store and what i have listened to in CD lectures... so please bear with me)

Feynman talks about superconductivity at very low temperatures. He also talks about electron pairs at very low temperatures.(Best of Feyman's Lectures, lol i got it on CD)

I find it interesting to think that temperature of an object can have such a tremendous effect on how it conducts electricity and thus the electromagnetic field itself. 

In vacuum space where temperatures are very low, would it be significat to understand how quantums of photons are effected by this? (if i am way out on a limb, let me know. like i said i am self taught, and not well at that lol)

or even yet, if Gravity is indeed made up of gravitons, or energy particles, then very low temperatures could have some effect on how gravity waves are propogated through space. right?

in fact (unless my math is wrong)when large group of particles are forced to seek theier very simplest of states, it would appear that the effect would overcome the charge of a particle...

i guess what i am wondering is...

if it is possible for very cold temperatures to effect these charges, would light or gravity be effected, and if so, in what way?

thank you for taking your time to read this, and hiopefuly i am not obstructing your very nice site too much!

thanks in advance

Aaron

(P.S. Congrats on the site... it looks geat!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just skimmed the topic above, i am here on advice from the people over at cosmic variance.</p>
<p>two questions here realy&#8230; </p>
<p>1, may i link your site to mine?</p>
<p>and 2&#8230; (i am a layman when it comes to physics. no schooling except what i have read out of a book store and what i have listened to in CD lectures&#8230; so please bear with me)</p>
<p>Feynman talks about superconductivity at very low temperatures. He also talks about electron pairs at very low temperatures.(Best of Feyman&#8217;s Lectures, lol i got it on CD)</p>
<p>I find it interesting to think that temperature of an object can have such a tremendous effect on how it conducts electricity and thus the electromagnetic field itself. </p>
<p>In vacuum space where temperatures are very low, would it be significat to understand how quantums of photons are effected by this? (if i am way out on a limb, let me know. like i said i am self taught, and not well at that lol)</p>
<p>or even yet, if Gravity is indeed made up of gravitons, or energy particles, then very low temperatures could have some effect on how gravity waves are propogated through space. right?</p>
<p>in fact (unless my math is wrong)when large group of particles are forced to seek theier very simplest of states, it would appear that the effect would overcome the charge of a particle&#8230;</p>
<p>i guess what i am wondering is&#8230;</p>
<p>if it is possible for very cold temperatures to effect these charges, would light or gravity be effected, and if so, in what way?</p>
<p>thank you for taking your time to read this, and hiopefuly i am not obstructing your very nice site too much!</p>
<p>thanks in advance</p>
<p>Aaron</p>
<p>(P.S. Congrats on the site&#8230; it looks geat!)</p>
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