Comments on: More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup, III http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/ Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:10:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup, VII - Asymptotia http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-32992 More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup, VII - Asymptotia Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:21:46 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-32992 [...] The beginnings (that I heard, at least) of breaking away from these frustratingly lame debates came when Lee Smolin debated Jeff Harvey (University of Chicago) on a Chicago radio show. I blogged a bit about it here and here and here. Sadly, it did not really get as far with the content as would have been desirable before the show ran out of time. (We did have some excellent extended discussion on the latter two threads, including substantial contributions from Jeff Harvey and Jacques Distler, and on this thread, with substantial contributions by Mark Srednicki.) [...] [...] The beginnings (that I heard, at least) of breaking away from these frustratingly lame debates came when Lee Smolin debated Jeff Harvey (University of Chicago) on a Chicago radio show. I blogged a bit about it here and here and here. Sadly, it did not really get as far with the content as would have been desirable before the show ran out of time. (We did have some excellent extended discussion on the latter two threads, including substantial contributions from Jeff Harvey and Jacques Distler, and on this thread, with substantial contributions by Mark Srednicki.) [...]

]]> By: Masterclass - Asymptotia http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-7325 Masterclass - Asymptotia Thu, 07 Dec 2006 07:28:00 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-7325 [...] You’ve possibly been following my efforts over here to discuss and explain the several weaknesses in Smolin’s and Woit’s arguments and positions, and why the current “string debate” is all an overblown (and media-fueled) fake controversy. (See for example the series of posts entitled “More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup”, the last three especially, (links: I, II, III, IV, V, VI; use the search engine for other instances.) [...] [...] You’ve possibly been following my efforts over here to discuss and explain the several weaknesses in Smolin’s and Woit’s arguments and positions, and why the current “string debate” is all an overblown (and media-fueled) fake controversy. (See for example the series of posts entitled “More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup”, the last three especially, (links: I, II, III, IV, V, VI; use the search engine for other instances.) [...]

]]> By: Guest Blogger: Joe Polchinski on the String Debates | Cosmic Variance http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-7310 Guest Blogger: Joe Polchinski on the String Debates | Cosmic Variance Thu, 07 Dec 2006 05:36:42 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-7310 [...] You may have read here and there about the genteel discussions concerning the status of string theory within contemporary theoretical physics. We’ve discussed it on CV here, here, and even way back here, and Clifford has hosted a multipart discussion at Asymptotia (I, II, III, IV, V, VI). [...] [...] You may have read here and there about the genteel discussions concerning the status of string theory within contemporary theoretical physics. We’ve discussed it on CV here, here, and even way back here, and Clifford has hosted a multipart discussion at Asymptotia (I, II, III, IV, V, VI). [...]

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-1747 Clifford Sun, 08 Oct 2006 15:53:43 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-1747 Hi M, Please see my comments on that point on the thread of the post after this. For example <a href="http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iv/#comment-1730" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">this one</a>. It particularly addresses the first sentence of yours. Also, see my responses to other landscape questions of this sort in the thread of <a href="http://cosmicvariance.com/2005/08/14/the-landscape-for-real-this-time/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">this post</a> (in comments numbered in the late 30s and early 40s or so). Please also note my points about the fact that we have only just begun to understand what string theory is. I cannot tell you what we'll be doing in the field some years from now, but there is already a lot to do in string theory besides counting vacua. Cheers, -cvj Hi M,

Please see my comments on that point on the thread of the post after this. For example this one. It particularly addresses the first sentence of yours.

Also, see my responses to other landscape questions of this sort in the thread of this post (in comments numbered in the late 30s and early 40s or so). Please also note my points about the fact that we have only just begun to understand what string theory is. I cannot tell you what we’ll be doing in the field some years from now, but there is already a lot to do in string theory besides counting vacua.

Cheers,

-cvj

]]> By: M http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-1740 M Sun, 08 Oct 2006 07:34:50 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-1740 Clifford, the answer to your question (why many QFT is ok while many strings is bad?) is that we can do experiments at energies where physics is described by one QFT. So, we can see which QFT is the right one, but we cannot see if point particles approximate tiny strings, tiny worms, or whatever. We do not directly observe quantum gravity. Despite this, theorists addressed quantum gravity hoping that it could led to a theory of everything, or at least to a theory able of predicting something at low energy. This hope seems gone. Even without understanding each one of them, just having 10^500 string vacua makes the situation apparently hopeless. If somebody had a good realistic idea about how to proceed, everybody would try it, rather than studying strings as an approximate model for nuclear matter. If the present situation persists after LHC data, would you give up with strings? This process might be abnormally slow because strings have been too strongly over-hyped, and because younger string theorist have a deep but narrow expertise. I hope we agree that the public criticism of Peter Woit is better than spending the next 30 years in counting string vacua. Clifford,

the answer to your question (why many QFT is ok while many strings is bad?) is that we can do experiments at energies where physics is described by one QFT. So, we can see which QFT is the right one, but we cannot see if point particles approximate tiny strings, tiny worms, or whatever. We do not directly observe quantum gravity.

Despite this, theorists addressed quantum gravity hoping that it could led to a theory of everything, or at least to a theory able of predicting something at low energy. This hope seems gone. Even without understanding each one of them, just having 10^500 string vacua makes the situation apparently hopeless. If somebody had a good realistic idea about how to proceed, everybody would try it, rather than studying strings as an approximate model for nuclear matter. If the present situation persists after LHC data, would you give up with strings?

This process might be abnormally slow because strings have been too strongly over-hyped, and because younger string theorist have a deep but narrow expertise. I hope we agree that the public criticism of Peter Woit is better than spending the next 30 years in counting string vacua.

]]> By: More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup, IV - Asymptotia http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-1650 More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup, IV - Asymptotia Fri, 06 Oct 2006 04:48:58 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-1650 [...] « More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup, III [...] [...] « More Scenes From the Storm in a Teacup, III [...]

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-1645 Clifford Fri, 06 Oct 2006 04:00:25 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-1645 I'm just thinking that:- (1) I should go do something far more productive like watch those shows, and (2) I've been sitting here too long listen to this junk generated by Lee, Peter and their publisher's agents, and blogging it. I should go talk to a human being in person.... Sadly, not being a regular watcher of those shows.. I never thought to record them... but I do feel like seeing them now to just de-Gauss from this stuff. Cheers, -cvj I’m just thinking that:-

(1) I should go do something far more productive like watch those shows, and
(2) I’ve been sitting here too long listen to this junk generated by Lee, Peter and their publisher’s agents, and blogging it. I should go talk to a human being in person….

Sadly, not being a regular watcher of those shows.. I never thought to record them… but I do feel like seeing them now to just de-Gauss from this stuff.

Cheers,

-cvj

]]> By: Aaron Bergman http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-1644 Aaron Bergman Fri, 06 Oct 2006 03:53:48 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-1644 It's your fault I'm listening to this, you know. I could be at home watching the Daily Show -- checks clock -- The Colbert Report. If it weren't for TiVo, I'm not sure I could forgive you. It’s your fault I’m listening to this, you know. I could be at home watching the Daily Show — checks clock — The Colbert Report.

If it weren’t for TiVo, I’m not sure I could forgive you.

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-1643 Clifford Fri, 06 Oct 2006 03:50:43 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-1643 HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHA!!!!!! I feel sorry for Jeff. Between Lee and the presenter, who are just sucking up all the air in the studio and spewing out velvet fog.... he should be given some sort of prize for not going ballistic!! -cvj HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHA!!!!!!

I feel sorry for Jeff. Between Lee and the presenter, who are just sucking up all the air in the studio and spewing out velvet fog…. he should be given some sort of prize for not going ballistic!!

-cvj

]]> By: Aaron Bergman http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-1641 Aaron Bergman Fri, 06 Oct 2006 03:41:29 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-1641 I swear, if I hear Lee babble on about great philosophical disagreements since the time on Newton that don't, you know, <i>actually exist</i>, I may be forced to fly out to Perimeter.... I swear, if I hear Lee babble on about great philosophical disagreements since the time on Newton that don’t, you know, actually exist, I may be forced to fly out to Perimeter….

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-1640 Clifford Fri, 06 Oct 2006 03:39:08 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-1640 I feel your pain!!! It is getting a bit better... see the next post..... -cvj I feel your pain!!!

It is getting a bit better… see the next post…..

-cvj

]]> By: Aaron Bergman http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/comment-page-1/#comment-1639 Aaron Bergman Fri, 06 Oct 2006 03:37:40 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/10/05/more-scenes-from-the-storm-in-a-teacup-iii/#comment-1639 This is painful. Very, very painful. This is painful.

Very, very painful.

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