Comments on: Nerdium Perpetuus http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/ Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:05:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Showing a Different Way - Asymptotia http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-67807 Showing a Different Way - Asymptotia Wed, 01 Aug 2007 21:46:19 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-67807 [...] Danica sets an excellent example of why the two (being considered attractive on the one hand, and smart on the other) are not mutually exclusive, while not suffering from the “geek” or “nerd” label that is attached by the entertainment industry to certain groups of people who enjoy using their brains a lot. She trained as a mathematician, in fact, doing her undergraduate work at UCLA so well that she did rather good published research work. This is from someone who struggled with the subject in sixth grade. Why is she in the news? She’s written a new book “Math Doesn’t Suck”, the aim being to encourage girls to avoid the (social) barriers to getting into mathematics. Excellent title. (I wonder if they’ll change it to “Maths Doesn’t Suck” if they publish it in Britain? “Suck” British kids have adopted from the USA cultural juggernaut, but “Math”? Not yet.) [...] [...] Danica sets an excellent example of why the two (being considered attractive on the one hand, and smart on the other) are not mutually exclusive, while not suffering from the “geek” or “nerd” label that is attached by the entertainment industry to certain groups of people who enjoy using their brains a lot. She trained as a mathematician, in fact, doing her undergraduate work at UCLA so well that she did rather good published research work. This is from someone who struggled with the subject in sixth grade. Why is she in the news? She’s written a new book “Math Doesn’t Suck”, the aim being to encourage girls to avoid the (social) barriers to getting into mathematics. Excellent title. (I wonder if they’ll change it to “Maths Doesn’t Suck” if they publish it in Britain? “Suck” British kids have adopted from the USA cultural juggernaut, but “Math”? Not yet.) [...]

]]> By: DNA on Sunset - Asymptotia http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-66013 DNA on Sunset - Asymptotia Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:02:54 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-66013 [...] earlier writings, I dream of the day when science is just as much a part of the typical person’s conversation as, say, the latest antics of Paris Hilton1. This is not just because I happen toa scientist, but because we’re increasingly becoming less of a democratic society when on the one hand there are more and moreon the other hand science is still largely feared, and left as the province of the “geek”, the “nerd”, and all those other select few people in business and politics who areessentially controlling our everyday lives by being handed the scientific reins of society. So, as part of reversing that trend and restoring equal opportunity in the broadest sense, I like to think that we can have increased comfort with science concepts and images infiltrating and enriching our everyday language. [...] [...] earlier writings, I dream of the day when science is just as much a part of the typical person’s conversation as, say, the latest antics of Paris Hilton1. This is not just because I happen toa scientist, but because we’re increasingly becoming less of a democratic society when on the one hand there are more and moreon the other hand science is still largely feared, and left as the province of the “geek”, the “nerd”, and all those other select few people in business and politics who areessentially controlling our everyday lives by being handed the scientific reins of society. So, as part of reversing that trend and restoring equal opportunity in the broadest sense, I like to think that we can have increased comfort with science concepts and images infiltrating and enriching our everyday language. [...]

]]> By: Go Figure! - Asymptotia http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-1264 Go Figure! - Asymptotia Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:14:17 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-1264 [...] …at this point they show a shot of the Mandelbrot Set (they give links to explain what that is) and a zoom into the shape, showing “where they are”. It is at this point I looked back at their icon and realized what the two numbers in brackets mean. I think that they must be the coordinates in the complex plane showing where they are on the set. Ok, it’s a bit silly in the scheme of things - but why not? (It is ok to be comfortable to paly with science themes adn jokes in everyday language, and we should not be shy about doing so for fear of having the words “geek” and “nerd” poked at us. See earlier post.) [...] [...] …at this point they show a shot of the Mandelbrot Set (they give links to explain what that is) and a zoom into the shape, showing “where they are”. It is at this point I looked back at their icon and realized what the two numbers in brackets mean. I think that they must be the coordinates in the complex plane showing where they are on the set. Ok, it’s a bit silly in the scheme of things - but why not? (It is ok to be comfortable to paly with science themes adn jokes in everyday language, and we should not be shy about doing so for fear of having the words “geek” and “nerd” poked at us. See earlier post.) [...]

]]> By: spyder http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-1144 spyder Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:18:54 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-1144 Thank you for your clarification of your post Clifford. I do suggest that "nerdiness" will always be with us from the perspective of the hierarchical arrangement of social status within the adolescent "confined" population (by confined i refer to the institutionalization of high schools framing a restrictive environment upon large groups of adolescents in which they only have one another to use in the never ending quest for mammalian/primate social arranging). What was techno-nerdie or science geeky will be some other aligned social behavior that will castigate a segment into that clan. There is so much work to be done to create participatory parity. Thank you for your clarification of your post Clifford. I do suggest that “nerdiness” will always be with us from the perspective of the hierarchical arrangement of social status within the adolescent “confined” population (by confined i refer to the institutionalization of high schools framing a restrictive environment upon large groups of adolescents in which they only have one another to use in the never ending quest for mammalian/primate social arranging). What was techno-nerdie or science geeky will be some other aligned social behavior that will castigate a segment into that clan. There is so much work to be done to create participatory parity.

]]> By: Sara T. http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-1089 Sara T. Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:58:45 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-1089 A few more points about nerds/geeks. * We are often protrayed as being introverts, but that is inaccurate. Many of us are extravertedly nerdy! * Don't forget "band nerds" (the classic scene at the end of the first "Revenge of the Nerds" movie at a football game when people own up to nerdhood, and the whole marching band walks out to join the nerds! * Love the Heinlein quote. An author who influences me though he annoys the h**l out of me, too, e.g. "Podkayne of Mars" and other such sexist cr*p. But I digress, that quotes makes me re-proud (is that an adjective?!) of that fact that I love airplanes and I love Barbie (TM) dolls! 8-) A few more points about nerds/geeks.

* We are often protrayed as being introverts, but that is inaccurate. Many of us are extravertedly nerdy!

* Don’t forget “band nerds” (the classic scene at the end of the first “Revenge of the Nerds” movie at a football game when people own up to nerdhood, and the whole marching band walks out to join the nerds!

* Love the Heinlein quote. An author who influences me though he annoys the h**l out of me, too, e.g. “Podkayne of Mars” and other such sexist cr*p. But I digress, that quotes makes me re-proud (is that an adjective?!) of that fact that I love airplanes and I love Barbie (TM) dolls!

8-)

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-1000 Clifford Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:15:21 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-1000 Hi Spyder! <blockquote> I don’t see how you really have redefined this aspect of the issue at all though; the socially awkward technical person… ? </blockquote> I don't understand what you don't understand. Help! I did not claim to redefine anything. <blockquote> Nerds have never been limited to the sciences and to technological skill sets </blockquote> I agree. I don't believe that I said that it was. See my point (2). <blockquote>It seems you are arguing that through technological and scientific accomplishments of various media celebrity heroes, the nerd/geek is no longer socially awkward. </blockquote> The "socially awkward" part is largely irrelevant. You seem to be very hung up on that. What I was arguing was stated clearly (I thought, sorry if not) in the two points right at the beginning: <blockquote> (1) Nerdiness is in decline, you would think, since everybody ends up being a nerd (by at least one main popular definition) after a while by adopting their practices (the fact that you are reading this or any blog is just one of myriad examples). (2) Nerdiness will likely continue forever, though (at least for a very long time), because -frankly- people feel threatened by, inferior to, and are afraid of people who have technical knowledge, especially (but not only) in the scientific realm. The response is to paint them as outsiders, to marginalise them, undermining the perceived threat. This, sadly, will continue for a while. The process is to continually redefine what is the province of the nerd, and what is not. So while, for example, it is no longer nerdy to blog (or even know about blogs), it is still nerdy to, let’s say, know how to significantly change the appearance of your blog, or know about technorati tags. That will continue…. until everybody learns how easy those things are. Etc, etc. </blockquote> The socially awkward aspect is irrelevant. -cvj Hi Spyder!

I don’t see how you really have redefined this aspect of the issue at all though; the socially awkward technical person… ?

I don’t understand what you don’t understand. Help! I did not claim to redefine anything.

Nerds have never been limited to the sciences and to technological skill sets

I agree. I don’t believe that I said that it was. See my point (2).

It seems you are arguing that through technological and scientific accomplishments of various media celebrity heroes, the nerd/geek is no longer socially awkward.

The “socially awkward” part is largely irrelevant. You seem to be very hung up on that. What I was arguing was stated clearly (I thought, sorry if not) in the two points right at the beginning:

(1) Nerdiness is in decline, you would think, since everybody ends up being a nerd (by at least one main popular definition) after a while by adopting their practices (the fact that you are reading this or any blog is just one of myriad examples).

(2) Nerdiness will likely continue forever, though (at least for a very long time), because -frankly- people feel threatened by, inferior to, and are afraid of people who have technical knowledge, especially (but not only) in the scientific realm. The response is to paint them as outsiders, to marginalise them, undermining the perceived threat. This, sadly, will continue for a while. The process is to continually redefine what is the province of the nerd, and what is not. So while, for example, it is no longer nerdy to blog (or even know about blogs), it is still nerdy to, let’s say, know how to significantly change the appearance of your blog, or know about technorati tags. That will continue…. until everybody learns how easy those things are. Etc, etc.

The socially awkward aspect is irrelevant.

-cvj

]]> By: spyder http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-998 spyder Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:01:57 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-998 I don't see how you really have redefined this aspect of the issue at all though; <i> the socially awkward technical person... </i>? Nerds have never been limited to the sciences and to technological skill sets; and i am from the very old days. Nerds and geeks could just as easily have been people studying the Classics or {heaven forbid}Philosophy ( the beatniks versus the bikers versus the surfers--as was the scene in my high school days). It was the social awkwardness that demarcated the boundaries of the labelling, and if we are to accept that techno-savvy nerdism has reduced the apparent disconnect of the socially awkward, this certainly is still not true for the folks on the other end of campus. Are not terms such as "arty" "goth" "freak" merely connoting the same message of socially awkward, consumed in arcana to the point of isolation geeky and nerdiness?? It seems you are arguing that through technological and scientific accomplishments of various media celebrity heroes, the nerd/geek is no longer socially awkward. I would think that if you visited local high schools, you could get any number of social clique members to point out the nerds and geeks.. and that for the most part such labelling would retain all the social awkwardness, isolation, and at this point: video gaming networks, yearbook production, the chess club, etc. Not much has changed at all. I don’t see how you really have redefined this aspect of the issue at all though; the socially awkward technical person… ?
Nerds have never been limited to the sciences and to technological skill sets; and i am from the very old days. Nerds and geeks could just as easily have been people studying the Classics or {heaven forbid}Philosophy ( the beatniks versus the bikers versus the surfers–as was the scene in my high school days). It was the social awkwardness that demarcated the boundaries of the labelling, and if we are to accept that techno-savvy nerdism has reduced the apparent disconnect of the socially awkward, this certainly is still not true for the folks on the other end of campus. Are not terms such as “arty” “goth” “freak” merely connoting the same message of socially awkward, consumed in arcana to the point of isolation geeky and nerdiness?? It seems you are arguing that through technological and scientific accomplishments of various media celebrity heroes, the nerd/geek is no longer socially awkward. I would think that if you visited local high schools, you could get any number of social clique members to point out the nerds and geeks.. and that for the most part such labelling would retain all the social awkwardness, isolation, and at this point: video gaming networks, yearbook production, the chess club, etc. Not much has changed at all.

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-993 Clifford Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:07:28 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-993 Hi Moshe:- "Should be able to" should be not read as "is willing to". (Although I've seen some hog-butchering in my time.... ;-) ) -cvj Hi Moshe:- “Should be able to” should be not read as “is willing to”. (Although I’ve seen some hog-butchering in my time…. ;-) )

-cvj

]]> By: Moshe http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-992 Moshe Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:21:33 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-992 Plan an invasion, butcher a hog, ..., fight efficiently, die gallantly? I'd really rather be a nerd... (amusing case of the macho-nerd is the way I read this...) Plan an invasion, butcher a hog, …, fight efficiently, die gallantly? I’d really rather be a nerd…

(amusing case of the macho-nerd is the way I read this…)

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-988 Clifford Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:13:26 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-988 Yes!!! -cvj Yes!!!

-cvj

]]> By: Dissonant http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-984 Dissonant Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:21:55 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/09/11/nerdium-perpetuus/#comment-984 ...thus finally fulfilling Heinlein's vision: <blockquote>A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. <i>Robert A. Heinlein</i> </blockquote> …thus finally fulfilling Heinlein’s vision:

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

Robert A. Heinlein

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