Comments on: Keeping the Flame Alive http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:13:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Poor Pluto! - Asymptotia http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-50268 Poor Pluto! - Asymptotia Thu, 31 May 2007 15:55:34 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-50268 [...] Which reminds me - I wonder how the campaign to get Pluto reinstated is going? Anybody been following it? (See this post, for example.) Give us an update, if so. [...] [...] Which reminds me - I wonder how the campaign to get Pluto reinstated is going? Anybody been following it? (See this post, for example.) Give us an update, if so. [...]

]]> By: Clues in the Blood Splatter Patterns - Asymptotia http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-997 Clues in the Blood Splatter Patterns - Asymptotia Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:57:28 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-997 [...] It is quite a fascinating subject, a detective story full of wonderful science, and illustrates -as I have said earlier in the post called “Spinach Blogging”- how the “demotion of Pluto” story opens the door to so much active planetary science. It also illustrates why it it is interesting to keep an eye on the debate about the “demotion”. which is still ongoing. The nature of the Kuiper belt is teaching us a huge amount about the other bodies in the solar system. For example: The distribution of Kuiper Belt objects has already provided decisive evidence that Neptune was once perhaps nearly a billion miles closer to the Sun and was then gravitationally nudged outward. Astronomers also hope that the Kuiper Belt preserves a frozen record of the earliest building materials of the solar system. [...] [...] It is quite a fascinating subject, a detective story full of wonderful science, and illustrates -as I have said earlier in the post called “Spinach Blogging”- how the “demotion of Pluto” story opens the door to so much active planetary science. It also illustrates why it it is interesting to keep an eye on the debate about the “demotion”. which is still ongoing. The nature of the Kuiper belt is teaching us a huge amount about the other bodies in the solar system. For example: The distribution of Kuiper Belt objects has already provided decisive evidence that Neptune was once perhaps nearly a billion miles closer to the Sun and was then gravitationally nudged outward. Astronomers also hope that the Kuiper Belt preserves a frozen record of the earliest building materials of the solar system. [...]

]]> By: Amara http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-704 Amara Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:57:23 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-704 Brad: "I'm sure the fact that many of those objecting to Pluto’s demotion are affiliated with the New Horizons mission is purely coincidental…" I think that this could be a common idea, but I don't see how to disentangle the New Horizons mission personnel from the outer solar system experts who are also on the mission. Or how to disentangle that the petition did not get wide circulation in Europe. I note that some of the most active outer solar system researchers did not sign the petition, and some of the most active Dawn mission researchers did not sign the petition, either. I think that one can make whatever conclusion that one wants, but at the end, I suspect that each person on that petition list has their own reason(s), which is probably not attached to any particular space mission. Brad: “I’m sure the fact that many of those objecting to Pluto’s demotion are affiliated with the New Horizons mission is purely coincidental…”

I think that this could be a common idea, but I don’t see how to disentangle the New Horizons mission personnel from the outer solar system experts who are also on the mission. Or how to disentangle that the petition did not get wide circulation in Europe. I note that some of the most active outer solar system researchers did not sign the petition, and some of the most active Dawn mission researchers did not sign the petition, either. I think that one can make whatever conclusion that one wants, but at the end, I suspect that each person on that petition list has their own reason(s), which is probably not attached to any particular space mission.

]]> By: Amara http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-702 Amara Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:34:25 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-702 astromcnaught: "Are you implying that this process of proposition, counter-proposition, etc. is deliberate? If so then it is a masterstroke of public relations. Spin doctors at the IAU, whatever next!" No, it's not deliberate, but I find it very interesting. A glimpse at the more human side of science. (Maybe that is why the press easily picked it up.) astromcnaught: “Are you implying that this process of proposition, counter-proposition, etc. is deliberate? If so then it is a masterstroke of public relations. Spin doctors at the IAU, whatever next!”

No, it’s not deliberate, but I find it very interesting. A glimpse at the more human side of science. (Maybe that is why the press easily picked it up.)

]]> By: astromcnaught http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-692 astromcnaught Thu, 31 Aug 2006 00:04:43 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-692 Haha yes, maybe a public vote on the number of dimensions! Haha yes, maybe a public vote on the number of dimensions!

]]> By: Clifford http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-691 Clifford Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:46:03 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-691 astromcnaught:- Good lord, we have unseemly bunfights (and yes, mostly artificailly driven by the press ... sometimes independently of what is *actually* going on in the field at large) in HEP all the time. Witness the storm(s) in a teacup about research in string theory, for example. Cheers, -cvj astromcnaught:- Good lord, we have unseemly bunfights (and yes, mostly artificailly driven by the press … sometimes independently of what is *actually* going on in the field at large) in HEP all the time. Witness the storm(s) in a teacup about research in string theory, for example.

Cheers,

-cvj

]]> By: astromcnaught http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-689 astromcnaught Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:03:13 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-689 Well Amara, it's certainly fun! Are you implying that this process of proposition, counter-proposition, etc. is deliberate? If so then it is a masterstroke of public relations. Spin doctors at the IAU, whatever next! I have certainly noticed an effect. People knowing I like such stuff ask me questions about planets. I get more chances to haul my telescope out and fill folk's eyes full of starlight. A rare pleasure indeed. Maybe Clifford, we will see an 'unseemly bunfight' amongst the HEP folk soon :) Oh, we have already. Well Amara, it’s certainly fun!
Are you implying that this process of proposition, counter-proposition, etc. is deliberate? If so then it is a masterstroke of public relations. Spin doctors at the IAU, whatever next!

I have certainly noticed an effect. People knowing I like such stuff ask me questions about planets. I get more chances to haul my telescope out and fill folk’s eyes full of starlight. A rare pleasure indeed.

Maybe Clifford, we will see an ‘unseemly bunfight’ amongst the HEP folk soon :)

Oh, we have already.

]]> By: Brad http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-688 Brad Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:46:52 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-688 I'm sure the fact that many of those objecting to Pluto's demotion are affiliated with the New Horizons mission is purely coincidental... I’m sure the fact that many of those objecting to Pluto’s demotion
are affiliated with the New Horizons mission is purely coincidental…

]]> By: Amara http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-687 Amara Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:35:40 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-687 The 'hundreds of KBOs' has already been reached, I guess the number will reach 1000 within the next year, if it hasn't been reached already. I don't think 'arguing about semantics' is anyone's goal; either the arguing or the semantics part. I see the planetary scientists as using this opportunity to educate themselves and others about the outer solar system at the same time of reaching a consensus so that everyone is using the same language; opening up the process to the public so that they can observe and participate too. Their intention is for the process to be educational and fun. The ‘hundreds of KBOs’ has already been reached, I guess the number will reach 1000 within the next year, if it hasn’t been reached already.

I don’t think ‘arguing about semantics’ is anyone’s goal; either the arguing or the semantics part. I see the planetary scientists as using this opportunity to educate themselves and others about the outer solar system at the same time of reaching a consensus so that everyone is using the same language; opening up the process to the public so that they can observe and participate too. Their intention is for the process to be educational and fun.

]]> By: astromcnaught http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-686 astromcnaught Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:13:49 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-686 This is fascinating, and thanks for the timely updates Clifford. My views are changing as I learn more about planetary dynamics (thanks amara) and certainly support the dissenters objections. But is it the case, unlike (possibly) mathematics that we talked about below, that all publicity is good publicity? For modern planetary* astronomy I doubt it. *late O.E., from O.Fr. planete (Fr. planète), from L.L. planeta, from Gk. (asteres) planetai "wandering (stars)," from planasthai "to wander," of unknown origin. So called because they have apparent motion, unlike the "fixed" stars. Originally including also the moon and sun; modern scientific sense of "world that orbits a star" is from 1640. This is fascinating, and thanks for the timely updates Clifford.

My views are changing as I learn more about planetary dynamics (thanks amara) and certainly support the dissenters objections.

But is it the case, unlike (possibly) mathematics that we talked about below, that all publicity is good publicity? For modern planetary* astronomy I doubt it.

*late O.E., from O.Fr. planete (Fr. planète), from L.L. planeta, from Gk. (asteres) planetai “wandering (stars),” from planasthai “to wander,” of unknown origin. So called because they have apparent motion, unlike the “fixed” stars. Originally including also the moon and sun; modern scientific sense of “world that orbits a star” is from 1640.

]]> By: Warren http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-685 Warren Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:19:02 +0000 http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/30/keeping-the-flame-alive/#comment-685 No, it won't. Hundreds of years from now, when hundreds or thousands of objects in the Kuiper belt will have been discovered, everyone will laugh about those silly astronomers who couldn't find anything better to do than argue semantics. What's next? After hundreds of objects have been found orbiting Jupiter, almost continuous in size down to pebbles, will they argue about the definition of satellite? Maybe they should just decide Pluto is a dog, and argue about what Goofy is. In fact, I propose "Goofy" as an alternative for "Xena". No, it won’t.

Hundreds of years from now, when hundreds or thousands of objects in the Kuiper belt will have been discovered, everyone will laugh about those silly astronomers who couldn’t find anything better to do than argue semantics.

What’s next? After hundreds of objects have been found orbiting Jupiter, almost continuous in size down to pebbles, will they argue about the definition of satellite?

Maybe they should just decide Pluto is a dog, and argue about what Goofy is. In fact, I propose “Goofy” as an alternative for “Xena”.

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