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	<title>Comments on: Bleep Bleep Yet Again</title>
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	<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Uncertainty Event - Asymptotia</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/comment-page-1/#comment-755</link>
		<dc:creator>The Uncertainty Event - Asymptotia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/#comment-755</guid>
		<description>[...] We then all sat up on stage for a question and answer session. This was perhaps the only aspect of the evening that I think was less than successful, because it was cut short. We were running late, and the vast supply of refreshments waiting in the lobby upstairs was beginning to wilt. So we took a few questions (such as &#8220;where is the line between physics and philosophy, and on which side of the line is string theory?&#8221;, and &#8220;There is a rise of spiritualism and mysticism in hollywood and other media forms. Do you think that this is valid?&#8221;. This latter might have been sparked by my saying in my earlier remarks that the &#8220;What the Bleep&#8230;&#8221; film was a terrible misapplication of physics facts out of context which serves only to deceive people (see this post), and I briefly explained why. Planck&#8217;s constant is a very small number&#8230;. quantum states are very delicate&#8230;. effect of the environment on a quantum system&#8230; Decoherence, etc&#8230;.). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We then all sat up on stage for a question and answer session. This was perhaps the only aspect of the evening that I think was less than successful, because it was cut short. We were running late, and the vast supply of refreshments waiting in the lobby upstairs was beginning to wilt. So we took a few questions (such as &#8220;where is the line between physics and philosophy, and on which side of the line is string theory?&#8221;, and &#8220;There is a rise of spiritualism and mysticism in hollywood and other media forms. Do you think that this is valid?&#8221;. This latter might have been sparked by my saying in my earlier remarks that the &#8220;What the Bleep&#8230;&#8221; film was a terrible misapplication of physics facts out of context which serves only to deceive people (see this post), and I briefly explained why. Planck&#8217;s constant is a very small number&#8230;. quantum states are very delicate&#8230;. effect of the environment on a quantum system&#8230; Decoherence, etc&#8230;.). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/comment-page-1/#comment-600</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 05:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/#comment-600</guid>
		<description>Hi,

You're absolutely right that the objective argument should win the day, and that considerations of how many share the opinon, or whether the person putting the counter argument is a charlatan or not should be secondary.

I'm very happy to say that the outcome of such an objective examination is that most of what is suggested in this film as being fact is simply unverified conjecture and anecdote. Such things have been deliberately allowed by the filmmakers to be taken by gullible people as true facts. This is wrong. Very wrong. No amount of getting into the swimming pool slowly or whatever is going to change that.

Best,

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right that the objective argument should win the day, and that considerations of how many share the opinon, or whether the person putting the counter argument is a charlatan or not should be secondary.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very happy to say that the outcome of such an objective examination is that most of what is suggested in this film as being fact is simply unverified conjecture and anecdote. Such things have been deliberately allowed by the filmmakers to be taken by gullible people as true facts. This is wrong. Very wrong. No amount of getting into the swimming pool slowly or whatever is going to change that.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Natdrip</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/comment-page-1/#comment-599</link>
		<dc:creator>Natdrip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Aug 2006 03:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/#comment-599</guid>
		<description>I really have never liked the practice of debunking an idea based on someoneâ€™s character. Rather one should listen to what the message is, weigh the supporting evidence and come to a conclusion in a pragmatic, peaceful (without pride) and scientific fashion. Doing it like this helps keep oneâ€™s self open minded and in a state of ever-ready growth. 

In my limited consideration, science is the discovery and the understanding of the world around us through observation where observation is limited to point of view and reference. When people take science to a level that mimics the shackles of black and white it becomes an abomination of what science is.

Another argument that is disconcerting is, â€œhey there are more of us than there are of you therefore weâ€™re right.â€ Hmmm. Can you think of anytime in the past where this argument was used? How about the earth being the center of the universe? 

It is by mere chance that I stumbled across this blog, but I am glad I did. I think for some people the movie may have been too much, too fast. For those persons I empathize, when I was young, my mother would take about 30 minutes or so to actually get into the swimming pool on a very hot summer's day. It was her understanding she had to slowly acclimate, first one foot, then the other, etc. She couldnâ€™t handle the sudden change. It would make her experience unpleasant and cause her to change her point of view when it came to pools. I think if you are up to the challenge then maybe you could do the same thing with this movie â€œWhat the Bleep.â€ Just slowly get into it, watch a little bit then think about, ask around, research, and then comeback to it.          

So how can you observe something you already know; especially you being something as dynamic as a human?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really have never liked the practice of debunking an idea based on someoneâ€™s character. Rather one should listen to what the message is, weigh the supporting evidence and come to a conclusion in a pragmatic, peaceful (without pride) and scientific fashion. Doing it like this helps keep oneâ€™s self open minded and in a state of ever-ready growth. </p>
<p>In my limited consideration, science is the discovery and the understanding of the world around us through observation where observation is limited to point of view and reference. When people take science to a level that mimics the shackles of black and white it becomes an abomination of what science is.</p>
<p>Another argument that is disconcerting is, â€œhey there are more of us than there are of you therefore weâ€™re right.â€ Hmmm. Can you think of anytime in the past where this argument was used? How about the earth being the center of the universe? </p>
<p>It is by mere chance that I stumbled across this blog, but I am glad I did. I think for some people the movie may have been too much, too fast. For those persons I empathize, when I was young, my mother would take about 30 minutes or so to actually get into the swimming pool on a very hot summer&#8217;s day. It was her understanding she had to slowly acclimate, first one foot, then the other, etc. She couldnâ€™t handle the sudden change. It would make her experience unpleasant and cause her to change her point of view when it came to pools. I think if you are up to the challenge then maybe you could do the same thing with this movie â€œWhat the Bleep.â€ Just slowly get into it, watch a little bit then think about, ask around, research, and then comeback to it.          </p>
<p>So how can you observe something you already know; especially you being something as dynamic as a human?</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Knop</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/comment-page-1/#comment-575</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Knop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/#comment-575</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I agree with you-- the movie does fully undercut itself, and the point of the movie is of course the bunk.

You know the movie is in trouble when one of the more "reasonable" sounding scientists is Fred Alan Wofle.  I discovered his book "Star Wave" when I was in college, and a few other Modern Physics sat around laughing at it.  (Flake-o-rama.)  Just reading the index is fun, finding "evil" a few lines below "eigenstate".

-Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I agree with you&#8211; the movie does fully undercut itself, and the point of the movie is of course the bunk.</p>
<p>You know the movie is in trouble when one of the more &#8220;reasonable&#8221; sounding scientists is Fred Alan Wofle.  I discovered his book &#8220;Star Wave&#8221; when I was in college, and a few other Modern Physics sat around laughing at it.  (Flake-o-rama.)  Just reading the index is fun, finding &#8220;evil&#8221; a few lines below &#8220;eigenstate&#8221;.</p>
<p>-Rob</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/comment-page-1/#comment-574</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/#comment-574</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but once you have that middle bit in there, no matter how wonderfully presented and true the beginning and end bits might be, the middle bit is &lt;em&gt; so utterly misleading &lt;/em&gt;(believe me, it is - I met a massage therapist who "uses quantum mechanics" in her treatments "just like in What the Bleep..." at a party in Hollywood not long ago) that it makes the whole thing bunk. Bunk, bunk, bunk, bunk. And bunk. I can't say that too many times.


-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but once you have that middle bit in there, no matter how wonderfully presented and true the beginning and end bits might be, the middle bit is <em> so utterly misleading </em>(believe me, it is - I met a massage therapist who &#8220;uses quantum mechanics&#8221; in her treatments &#8220;just like in What the Bleep&#8230;&#8221; at a party in Hollywood not long ago) that it makes the whole thing bunk. Bunk, bunk, bunk, bunk. And bunk. I can&#8217;t say that too many times.</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Knop</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/comment-page-1/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Knop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 22:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/#comment-573</guid>
		<description>The thing is, not &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of the film was bunk.  Some of the stuff early in the movie about atoms and quantum mechanics and such was OK, and on a level of the Brian Greene Nova special.

Of course, the movie very quickly ventures into la-la land and says vastly, vastly wrong things.  The fundamental mistake of the movie seems to be making the leap from the stochastic nature of quantum mechanics (we can't predict exactly which eigenstate we will measure when we measure a system that's in an overlap of states) into the conclusion that, therefore, we get to &lt;i&gt;choose&lt;/i&gt; what state the system will go into.  Utter poo!

Also, the concluding notion from the movie that you can help your own psychological state by affirming and not getting down on yourself also isn't bunk... but doesn't have anything to do with fundamental quantum physics.  It has more to do with human psychology.

-Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, not <i>all</i> of the film was bunk.  Some of the stuff early in the movie about atoms and quantum mechanics and such was OK, and on a level of the Brian Greene Nova special.</p>
<p>Of course, the movie very quickly ventures into la-la land and says vastly, vastly wrong things.  The fundamental mistake of the movie seems to be making the leap from the stochastic nature of quantum mechanics (we can&#8217;t predict exactly which eigenstate we will measure when we measure a system that&#8217;s in an overlap of states) into the conclusion that, therefore, we get to <i>choose</i> what state the system will go into.  Utter poo!</p>
<p>Also, the concluding notion from the movie that you can help your own psychological state by affirming and not getting down on yourself also isn&#8217;t bunk&#8230; but doesn&#8217;t have anything to do with fundamental quantum physics.  It has more to do with human psychology.</p>
<p>-Rob</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/comment-page-1/#comment-564</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/#comment-564</guid>
		<description>I'm sorry Rissa, you are outnumbered here by people who &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; done the research in fundamental physics, and I think that your confusion with science and philosophy is exactly what we are rallying against.  Groups such as the one that produced "What the Bleep" hope that, by conflating their religion with modern science, their beliefs will carry on an extra air of authority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry Rissa, you are outnumbered here by people who <i>have</i> done the research in fundamental physics, and I think that your confusion with science and philosophy is exactly what we are rallying against.  Groups such as the one that produced &#8220;What the Bleep&#8221; hope that, by conflating their religion with modern science, their beliefs will carry on an extra air of authority.</p>
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		<title>By: Rissa</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/comment-page-1/#comment-563</link>
		<dc:creator>Rissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/#comment-563</guid>
		<description>I think that if you really feel that the film "What the Bleep do We Know?" is a load of nonsense, then you obviously did NOT understand what they were trying to say in the film. Its like one of the scientists says in the film, "if I showed you a picture of a particle in two places in once, people wouldn't drop jaws about it. Not because they think I'm lying or they say, 'oh the scientists are confused', they just wouldn't grasp, thats the same thing in two places at once." Here you are and he's right, I can't tell you enough the paradyme shift your life with undertake if you truly understand the film. I mean research quantum physics and theoretical physics, then really research philosophies and religions and myths and really sit, think, meditate on the message and if you still don't have a paradyme shift, then maybe your conciousness isn't mature enough to grasp such a mind-blowing concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that if you really feel that the film &#8220;What the Bleep do We Know?&#8221; is a load of nonsense, then you obviously did NOT understand what they were trying to say in the film. Its like one of the scientists says in the film, &#8220;if I showed you a picture of a particle in two places in once, people wouldn&#8217;t drop jaws about it. Not because they think I&#8217;m lying or they say, &#8216;oh the scientists are confused&#8217;, they just wouldn&#8217;t grasp, thats the same thing in two places at once.&#8221; Here you are and he&#8217;s right, I can&#8217;t tell you enough the paradyme shift your life with undertake if you truly understand the film. I mean research quantum physics and theoretical physics, then really research philosophies and religions and myths and really sit, think, meditate on the message and if you still don&#8217;t have a paradyme shift, then maybe your conciousness isn&#8217;t mature enough to grasp such a mind-blowing concept.</p>
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		<title>By: donna</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/comment-page-1/#comment-548</link>
		<dc:creator>donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Aug 2006 02:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/08/24/bleep-bleep-yet-again/#comment-548</guid>
		<description>I had a friend send me a copy - I think he was disappointed when I laughed it off and explained some reality to him. It really is interesting to watch, but completely ludicrous. I found it amusing, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a friend send me a copy - I think he was disappointed when I laughed it off and explained some reality to him. It really is interesting to watch, but completely ludicrous. I found it amusing, though.</p>
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