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	<title>Comments on: Why No Anti-War Rants?</title>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Man of Tomorrow? - Asymptotia</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-65328</link>
		<dc:creator>The Man of Tomorrow? - Asymptotia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-65328</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve been wanting to present the above idea for a long time now, but I&#8217;m always given reason to pause when reminded of all of the terrible things that have happened under the current Bush administration. Obvious things like the Iraq situation (how can one even begin to quantify where to put that into the equation of the previous paragraph), Katrina mishandling, the Supreme Court (as Jeff Harvey reminded me yesterday), and perhaps less obvious ones like (for example) the manipulation of expert testimony on scientific matters to do with the environment, etc. I won&#8217;t go into all of that since you know of them so well, and other blogs and sources you read do a perfectly good job of that, and I largely leave it to them. So I don&#8217;t really know where I stand on my Devil&#8217;s Advocate position above, but it is in my nature to try and make the best of a bad thing, so it is a thought that came up naturally. I offer it to you the reader as a thought to turn over in your own head, and to debate, examine, deconstruct, and do with what you will. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve been wanting to present the above idea for a long time now, but I&#8217;m always given reason to pause when reminded of all of the terrible things that have happened under the current Bush administration. Obvious things like the Iraq situation (how can one even begin to quantify where to put that into the equation of the previous paragraph), Katrina mishandling, the Supreme Court (as Jeff Harvey reminded me yesterday), and perhaps less obvious ones like (for example) the manipulation of expert testimony on scientific matters to do with the environment, etc. I won&#8217;t go into all of that since you know of them so well, and other blogs and sources you read do a perfectly good job of that, and I largely leave it to them. So I don&#8217;t really know where I stand on my Devil&#8217;s Advocate position above, but it is in my nature to try and make the best of a bad thing, so it is a thought that came up naturally. I offer it to you the reader as a thought to turn over in your own head, and to debate, examine, deconstruct, and do with what you will. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Count Iblis</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Count Iblis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 16:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-154</guid>
		<description>It could be that typical observers in the universe find themselves living in societies where warfare/conflicts etc. have significantly slowed down their progress. 

I explain this in detail &lt;a href="http://countiblis.blogspot.com/2005/11/olums-paradox-religion-and-intelligent.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. I assume that when the technology arises to make intelligent machines, these machines will take over. This means that a civilization with slower technological development give rise to more observers, making it more likely to find yourself living there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It could be that typical observers in the universe find themselves living in societies where warfare/conflicts etc. have significantly slowed down their progress. </p>
<p>I explain this in detail <a href="http://countiblis.blogspot.com/2005/11/olums-paradox-religion-and-intelligent.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. I assume that when the technology arises to make intelligent machines, these machines will take over. This means that a civilization with slower technological development give rise to more observers, making it more likely to find yourself living there.</p>
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		<title>By: Say Lee</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>Say Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Aug 2006 22:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-105</guid>
		<description>Or divison of labor? Anyway it's clear that collective might and alignment of values, a nebulous concept to some no doubt, are necessary to stem the tide of human strife as eloquently expounded by Tony Blair:

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/08/blairs_call_to_.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or divison of labor? Anyway it&#8217;s clear that collective might and alignment of values, a nebulous concept to some no doubt, are necessary to stem the tide of human strife as eloquently expounded by Tony Blair:</p>
<p><a href="http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/08/blairs_call_to_.html" rel="nofollow">http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/08/blairs_call_to_.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: IrrationalPoint</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>IrrationalPoint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 15:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Say Lee:

What you say is true, but I think it's more than that.  However much I may care about Darfur, I still need to go to work, pay the bills, etc.  Which puts a limit on what I can do.  And as trivial/selfish as it may seem to put it this way, I still need to look after *me* otherwise I can't possibly participate in any meaningful activism of any sort.  Doesn't mean that I don't care.  I wish I could do more, but I can't participate lobbying against every singly instance of injustice.

So I do the bits that I can, and hope that other people will do other bits, and maybe between lots of people, we can cover lots of ground.  I'm glad that there are people who blog about Katrina and biking to work, because those are things that I don't get round to; instead, I get round to other things that they don't.  A symbiosis, of sorts?  ;)

--IP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Say Lee:</p>
<p>What you say is true, but I think it&#8217;s more than that.  However much I may care about Darfur, I still need to go to work, pay the bills, etc.  Which puts a limit on what I can do.  And as trivial/selfish as it may seem to put it this way, I still need to look after *me* otherwise I can&#8217;t possibly participate in any meaningful activism of any sort.  Doesn&#8217;t mean that I don&#8217;t care.  I wish I could do more, but I can&#8217;t participate lobbying against every singly instance of injustice.</p>
<p>So I do the bits that I can, and hope that other people will do other bits, and maybe between lots of people, we can cover lots of ground.  I&#8217;m glad that there are people who blog about Katrina and biking to work, because those are things that I don&#8217;t get round to; instead, I get round to other things that they don&#8217;t.  A symbiosis, of sorts?  <img src='http://asymptotia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&#8211;IP</p>
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		<title>By: Say Lee</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Say Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 23:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-71</guid>
		<description>Or we can send in donations to support any humanitarian mission. Or utter prayers in the comfort of home.

Admittedly we are all so caught up in our own little world that any compassion or indignation that we may feel is so fleeting, the proverbial out of sight, out of mind. To use a cliche, think globally, but act locally, is perhaps the best way one can exert a semblance of righteousness under the circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or we can send in donations to support any humanitarian mission. Or utter prayers in the comfort of home.</p>
<p>Admittedly we are all so caught up in our own little world that any compassion or indignation that we may feel is so fleeting, the proverbial out of sight, out of mind. To use a cliche, think globally, but act locally, is perhaps the best way one can exert a semblance of righteousness under the circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: IrrationalPoint</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>IrrationalPoint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 21:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Interesting post.

There are issues I feel that I, on some level, *have* to blog about, even when all I can say is "yeah, me too, Iâ€™m pissed off!â€  Maybe I wonder what would happen if everyone who felt they had nothing new to say, said something anyway, purely for the sake of speaking out against things that are wrong &lt;i&gt;because they are wrong&lt;/i&gt; (rather than because its interesting blogging material).  Would politics look different?

But it's not humanly possible to do so.  You can't care about everything that's wrong all of the time.  There are conflicts that I'm somehow nearer to, so I blog more about those, and the rest get...well, left aside.  I wish I could focus more attention on those neglected conflicts, but I can't.  I think you're right Clifford, about needing to pick a little bit of activism, for the sake of maintaining some sanity.

--IP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post.</p>
<p>There are issues I feel that I, on some level, *have* to blog about, even when all I can say is &#8220;yeah, me too, Iâ€™m pissed off!â€  Maybe I wonder what would happen if everyone who felt they had nothing new to say, said something anyway, purely for the sake of speaking out against things that are wrong <i>because they are wrong</i> (rather than because its interesting blogging material).  Would politics look different?</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not humanly possible to do so.  You can&#8217;t care about everything that&#8217;s wrong all of the time.  There are conflicts that I&#8217;m somehow nearer to, so I blog more about those, and the rest get&#8230;well, left aside.  I wish I could focus more attention on those neglected conflicts, but I can&#8217;t.  I think you&#8217;re right Clifford, about needing to pick a little bit of activism, for the sake of maintaining some sanity.</p>
<p>&#8211;IP</p>
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		<title>By: Elliot</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-69</guid>
		<description>I just ran across this quote from the Godfather...

Strangely appropriate for the situation in the mideast.

On the Cuban revolution... 


Michael: "I saw an interesting thing happen today. A rebel was being arrested by the military police, and rather than be taken alive, he exploded a grenade he had hidden in his jacket. He killed himself, and he took a captain of the command with him."

Random observer: "Those rebels, you know they're crazy."

Michael: "Maybe so. But it occurred to me - the soldiers are paid to fight. The rebels aren't."

Hyman Roth: "What does that tell you?"

Michael: "They could win."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just ran across this quote from the Godfather&#8230;</p>
<p>Strangely appropriate for the situation in the mideast.</p>
<p>On the Cuban revolution&#8230; </p>
<p>Michael: &#8220;I saw an interesting thing happen today. A rebel was being arrested by the military police, and rather than be taken alive, he exploded a grenade he had hidden in his jacket. He killed himself, and he took a captain of the command with him.&#8221;</p>
<p>Random observer: &#8220;Those rebels, you know they&#8217;re crazy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Michael: &#8220;Maybe so. But it occurred to me - the soldiers are paid to fight. The rebels aren&#8217;t.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hyman Roth: &#8220;What does that tell you?&#8221;</p>
<p>Michael: &#8220;They could win.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Amara</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Amara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-67</guid>
		<description>First, I think that it's important to gather good information about what is going on all over the world; to step outside of our local bubbles. The technology with camera, computer, Internet in the last years overturned what was previously impossible for reporting news, and airline flights have become much cheaper too. My news information gathering scheme, to optimize accuracy,  in order of weight: 

1) go to the place directly (and observe and converse) 
2) talk to people from there
3) read papers from that place (translated if needed)
4) The Economist (great news source)
5) Other web news sources

(the first is obviously problematic, but also the most valuable if you can)

I'm an information hound, synthesizing constantly, and unable to 'compartmentalize' if something large is occurring, because my basic psychological structure doesn't let me. My empathy reservoir is large. I must process it, and I have a kind of 'toolkit' for that, so that I can put it aside and be productive again. Everyone has their own ways of processing large-scale tragic events, some more visible than others. It certainly helps to talk about it, so I'm glad that Arun wrote what he did and that Clifford and JoAnne each kindly responded too. Thank you all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I think that it&#8217;s important to gather good information about what is going on all over the world; to step outside of our local bubbles. The technology with camera, computer, Internet in the last years overturned what was previously impossible for reporting news, and airline flights have become much cheaper too. My news information gathering scheme, to optimize accuracy,  in order of weight: </p>
<p>1) go to the place directly (and observe and converse)<br />
2) talk to people from there<br />
3) read papers from that place (translated if needed)<br />
4) The Economist (great news source)<br />
5) Other web news sources</p>
<p>(the first is obviously problematic, but also the most valuable if you can)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an information hound, synthesizing constantly, and unable to &#8216;compartmentalize&#8217; if something large is occurring, because my basic psychological structure doesn&#8217;t let me. My empathy reservoir is large. I must process it, and I have a kind of &#8216;toolkit&#8217; for that, so that I can put it aside and be productive again. Everyone has their own ways of processing large-scale tragic events, some more visible than others. It certainly helps to talk about it, so I&#8217;m glad that Arun wrote what he did and that Clifford and JoAnne each kindly responded too. Thank you all.</p>
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		<title>By: JoAnne</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>JoAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 05:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Arun,

There is plenty of pain, even if it is not expressed.  The first thing I do each day is check the news of the Middle East.  I have several personal friends who live in Haifa and I continuously worry about their safety.  I have offered my home to one friend and her family who are currently in the States.  I don't want her to go back.  I also continuously worry about why so many innocent Leboneese civilians are being killed in air raids.  (I am presently thinking both sides are at fault here.)

I visited Israel for 6 weeks in 1986.  During my stay, my physicist host who served as a tank commander in the Golan Heights war showed me the hills he had captured.  The car broke down and he was scared to park it off the road to make repairs because of land mines.  Later on, we had a flat tire and the Israeli army happened by and helped us fix it.  While visiting Jerusalem our car was broken into and we had to call the anti-bomb squad  (who showed up in flack jackets) before we could safely enter it.  Too dangerous otherwise.  The next day while visiting Jerusalem, an Arab shot a Jewish student - just 2 blocks from where I was at the exact time - and all hell broke loose.  The city was closed down the next day, my companion and I toured alone, with all shops closed,  amongst mobs of Israeli soldiers with machine guns pointed everywhere.  At one point we were pressed against a wall, while a battalion of soldiers ran by.

And it has continued thus for the past 20 years.  How can people live like this day to day???  But honestly what can we do to help in a serious way?  If all of us went there on a peace mission we'd be in the way.  Voting doesn't help (I am continously outvoted in this democracy).  Demonstrations against an unjust Iraq war seem to have no effect.  So, what do we do?  (Sorry - there is extreme frustration setting in here...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arun,</p>
<p>There is plenty of pain, even if it is not expressed.  The first thing I do each day is check the news of the Middle East.  I have several personal friends who live in Haifa and I continuously worry about their safety.  I have offered my home to one friend and her family who are currently in the States.  I don&#8217;t want her to go back.  I also continuously worry about why so many innocent Leboneese civilians are being killed in air raids.  (I am presently thinking both sides are at fault here.)</p>
<p>I visited Israel for 6 weeks in 1986.  During my stay, my physicist host who served as a tank commander in the Golan Heights war showed me the hills he had captured.  The car broke down and he was scared to park it off the road to make repairs because of land mines.  Later on, we had a flat tire and the Israeli army happened by and helped us fix it.  While visiting Jerusalem our car was broken into and we had to call the anti-bomb squad  (who showed up in flack jackets) before we could safely enter it.  Too dangerous otherwise.  The next day while visiting Jerusalem, an Arab shot a Jewish student - just 2 blocks from where I was at the exact time - and all hell broke loose.  The city was closed down the next day, my companion and I toured alone, with all shops closed,  amongst mobs of Israeli soldiers with machine guns pointed everywhere.  At one point we were pressed against a wall, while a battalion of soldiers ran by.</p>
<p>And it has continued thus for the past 20 years.  How can people live like this day to day???  But honestly what can we do to help in a serious way?  If all of us went there on a peace mission we&#8217;d be in the way.  Voting doesn&#8217;t help (I am continously outvoted in this democracy).  Demonstrations against an unjust Iraq war seem to have no effect.  So, what do we do?  (Sorry - there is extreme frustration setting in here&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Clifford</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>Clifford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 03:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-63</guid>
		<description>Arun,

I know you weren\'t being critical. I said so in the post. 

My point is that you can do both! You don\'t have to choose one or the other. In the battle for hearts and minds, to get people, governments, adn entire populations to do the right thing, we don\'t all get to be generals, but generals can\'t win the big battles without the support of the troops. We\'re the troops. We have to  get on with our every day lives, and stay sane and happy. How can we help? Well, remember that every little thing we do matters. Our first and most basic responsibility is to stay informed, and to take part in our community (voting when we can) to make our voices count if we can. Beyond that, we can be mindful of all the little things we can do right in our homes, towns and cities that can and will contribute to the big picture. (Take your pick of those things, and what issue you wish to focus on.) *That* is the major reason I choose to cycle and use public transport to commute to work when it takes me 2-3 times as long as it would if I drove. It is the right thing to do, and it will make a difference, ultimately.  Really. Word of mouth and activism by example is more powerful than you think. Cylcing and taking the bus and subway even when it is relatively inconvenient (in a city still geared toward  cars being more convenient) is my little bit of twice daily activism. Activism about oil dependence. Activism about the environment, which, ultimately will totally engulf the oil issue as the most pressing matter on all our minds. It\'s only a little bit of activism, and nobody will really notice it much, or write songs about it. But that does not matter.

Cheers,

-cvj</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arun,</p>
<p>I know you weren\&#8217;t being critical. I said so in the post. </p>
<p>My point is that you can do both! You don\&#8217;t have to choose one or the other. In the battle for hearts and minds, to get people, governments, adn entire populations to do the right thing, we don\&#8217;t all get to be generals, but generals can\&#8217;t win the big battles without the support of the troops. We\&#8217;re the troops. We have to  get on with our every day lives, and stay sane and happy. How can we help? Well, remember that every little thing we do matters. Our first and most basic responsibility is to stay informed, and to take part in our community (voting when we can) to make our voices count if we can. Beyond that, we can be mindful of all the little things we can do right in our homes, towns and cities that can and will contribute to the big picture. (Take your pick of those things, and what issue you wish to focus on.) *That* is the major reason I choose to cycle and use public transport to commute to work when it takes me 2-3 times as long as it would if I drove. It is the right thing to do, and it will make a difference, ultimately.  Really. Word of mouth and activism by example is more powerful than you think. Cylcing and taking the bus and subway even when it is relatively inconvenient (in a city still geared toward  cars being more convenient) is my little bit of twice daily activism. Activism about oil dependence. Activism about the environment, which, ultimately will totally engulf the oil issue as the most pressing matter on all our minds. It\&#8217;s only a little bit of activism, and nobody will really notice it much, or write songs about it. But that does not matter.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>-cvj</p>
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		<title>By: Arun</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Arun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 02:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-62</guid>
		<description>Dear Clifford,

I was in no way being critical. I certainly don't see indifference, only unexpressed pain.  I wrote what I did because there were two things I was wondering about.  

What is the true nature of the world? Is it possible for everyone to enjoy the kinds of things for instance, that you talk about on your blog? Is that world the norm, or is the exception; some few decades in some few corners of the earth, there is this peace and otherwise mostly the world is nasty and brutish, with people grinding other people's faces in the dirt?  Presumably all these combatants don't see enough in the world that all the warring sides could be happy; one or the other has to be eliminated. In that world, one always has to be alert, like a wild animal. It is dangerous, Darwinian in the extreme.

The second is what should I do? Since there is very little I can do, should I even follow these battles? Needlessly making myself sad. I can keep to my garden and books and hope that no outside nonsense will intrude on a quiet life.  

That's all.
-Arun</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Clifford,</p>
<p>I was in no way being critical. I certainly don&#8217;t see indifference, only unexpressed pain.  I wrote what I did because there were two things I was wondering about.  </p>
<p>What is the true nature of the world? Is it possible for everyone to enjoy the kinds of things for instance, that you talk about on your blog? Is that world the norm, or is the exception; some few decades in some few corners of the earth, there is this peace and otherwise mostly the world is nasty and brutish, with people grinding other people&#8217;s faces in the dirt?  Presumably all these combatants don&#8217;t see enough in the world that all the warring sides could be happy; one or the other has to be eliminated. In that world, one always has to be alert, like a wild animal. It is dangerous, Darwinian in the extreme.</p>
<p>The second is what should I do? Since there is very little I can do, should I even follow these battles? Needlessly making myself sad. I can keep to my garden and books and hope that no outside nonsense will intrude on a quiet life.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s all.<br />
-Arun</p>
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		<title>By: Say Lee</title>
		<link>http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Say Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 01:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://asymptotia.com/2006/07/31/why-no-anti-war-rants/#comment-61</guid>
		<description>Some said the next major war may be fought over water, especially river basins with multiple national jurisdictions.

Anyway I agree that time for contemplation and reflection is necessary to keep our sanity, regardless how uncaring it may seem to those more sensitive among us who frown upon such "indulgence" amidst all the world sufferings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some said the next major war may be fought over water, especially river basins with multiple national jurisdictions.</p>
<p>Anyway I agree that time for contemplation and reflection is necessary to keep our sanity, regardless how uncaring it may seem to those more sensitive among us who frown upon such &#8220;indulgence&#8221; amidst all the world sufferings.</p>
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